The sunn Forum
Sunn Musical Equipment => Q & A => Topic started by: sunn-tanned on October 30, 2009, 05:29:25 pm
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I still have many unanswered question relating to the "Enforcer".
I currently own two and I will say they are amazing. I'm looking for a cab to match just for the sake of it.
Questions:
> What was Sunn's objective when designing this model?
> Was this REALLY used by as well as a Ted Nugent fav? If so I have never seen any documentation of such.
> What speakers were used in the 300W cab?
Any other related info is appreciated!
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Here's someone selling an empty cab
http://cleveland.backpage.com/MusicEquipForSale/sunn_4x12_enforcer_series_slant_cab_empty_250_00/classifieds/ViewAd?oid=1174678
There's a few other articles to read if you search google.
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A couple of years ago there was a full stack at Zoo Music in Dallas. It's probably still there.
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Thanks for the info!
Still looking...Who knows the full "Ted Nugent" relationship??
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bump...still looking for information on the Enforcer.
Also there is NOTHING in the museum?? :-o
:?
:cry:
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The museum needs some SERIOUS work.
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i have a combo and am also curious.
Ted comes up and hunts in my city every year and a friend of a friend is his guide. It didn't happen this year, but my friend was suppose to interview him. I told him to ask about the enforcer. Next year we may have some answers.
If we are allowed to post to the museum I can add some info/pics for the combo version.
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I still have many unanswered question relating to the "Enforcer".
I currently own two and I will say they are amazing. I'm looking for a cab to match just for the sake of it.
Questions:
> What was Sunn's objective when designing this model?
> Was this REALLY used by as well as a Ted Nugent fav? If so I have never seen any documentation of such.
> What speakers were used in the 300W cab?
Any other related info is appreciated!
ted got tired of the marshall heads and didnt want to mod 1 out he wanted a signature head with his tone in mind,thus comes sunn dont know why he chose sunn but good choice anyway ted told sunn what he wanted even tube type and controls as well as the name, ted liked the amp but then came the buyout and for those who dont know ted doesnt really care for fender in any shape or form or at least at that time i do know he still has 1 head that i know of and a cab and that he used a sunn enforcer rig for about 2 months before the fender buyout.
i hope this helped this is all i know and it comes from a friend that was a roadie for ted back in the day.
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Great info.....thanks!
I'm about to own a third one for my collection... :wink:
Now I'm curious what serial numbers depict early and late models as I understand there was a mod offered to eliminate cross talk between channels on the early models.
I still have many unanswered question relating to the "Enforcer".
I currently own two and I will say they are amazing. I'm looking for a cab to match just for the sake of it.
Questions:
> What was Sunn's objective when designing this model?
> Was this REALLY used by as well as a Ted Nugent fav? If so I have never seen any documentation of such.
> What speakers were used in the 300W cab?
Any other related info is appreciated!
ted got tired of the marshall heads and didnt want to mod 1 out he wanted a signature head with his tone in mind,thus comes sunn dont know why he chose sunn but good choice anyway ted told sunn what he wanted even tube type and controls as well as the name, ted liked the amp but then came the buyout and for those who dont know ted doesnt really care for fender in any shape or form or at least at that time i do know he still has 1 head that i know of and a cab and that he used a sunn enforcer rig for about 2 months before the fender buyout.
i hope this helped this is all i know and it comes from a friend that was a roadie for ted back in the day.
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I own the head from Zoo Music in Dallas, the cabs have been gone for years. It is one really sick sounding amp - if you play stoner rock or doom. I find little else that its good for lol. Since I play in a stoner rock band, it is perfect for that. Enforcers really need a specific cab style and speaker wattage to get the full force of them out. I tried probably 5-6 cabs (Orange, Marshall, Mesa) and an old Sunn cab which worked the best. I promptly blew 2 of the original Transducer speakers and had to have them rebuilt. I'd say minimum of 75 watt speakers are needed to get the most out of it. I tried some 25 watt Greenbacks in a cab and even the Vintage 30s in my Orange and just not loud enough.
The uncle Ted connection best as I can remember. The Enforcer was not built specifically as Ted's signature amp, however there were a few (I believe that number to be 4) that were covered in Camo tolex and labeled as "Sunn Predators" that went to Ted and he used those as his amps for a while and honestly, I don't see how - they don't sound anything like Ted does or did. He endorsed Sunn for a little while in the early/mid 80s. I think two were given away in contests back in 1983/1984 if I recall. I did a ton of research when I got mine a couple of years back but now I've forgotten a lot of what I learned. I might be a little off on that but its close to accurate.
Will H who used to post here, was an engineer for Sunn and designed the Enforcer. He wrote me a nice email about them a while back. We discussed the rumor that Channel A was supposed to be based on a Fender Twin and Channel B on a Marshall JCM800. Here was his response (I am editing this a bit, I don't really like to post people's private comments fully in public, even though there is nothing bad or negative, just something I don't like to do out of respect):
Will: The rumor is basically true, though the circuits are not exact copies. The intent was to be able to provide the range of sound you could get out of Marshall and Fender amps. Marshall amps have a small output transformer which is prone to blowing. But that small transformer also does something called saturation, which provides a unique sound that the Enforcer doesn't do to nearly the same degree (all transformers are inherently non-linear, but when they enter saturation, they distort much more). But that saturation is also responsible for reliability problems on the Marshall's. I spec'ed the output transformer to handle 200 Watts of power, which is what you might get with a square wave. What that does is give the amp a volume you will rarely get out of another amp with 6L6s in the output.
That being said, I love my Enforcer, it is the meanest, nastiest sounding amp I own and I'll never sell it. I'd love to get another as a backup. It is closer in tone to an old Orange or Matamp than a Marshall or Fender, but not quite as pissed off sounding as a Matamp GTO for instance. Super, super fuzzed out with the gain cranked. I can hardly get a clean tone at a loud volume with it - the cleans are gritty at best. Mine has been fully gone through by my tech - he said it was a well designed, well built and really cool amp.
The channel switching is odd on them and I had my tech build me a footswitch out of a generic 2 button Marshall style switch. Works like a champ. Total cost to mod the switch $12 lol! Here is the schematic for the mod: http://www.pwrage.com/enforcer
Mine:
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/doomedfuzz/sunn2.jpg)
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/doomedfuzz/sunn3.jpg)
With its evil twin!
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/doomedfuzz/sunn1.jpg)
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That's some great information also :-)
Have you ever found out what the price was these sold for new?
As far as speaker cabs I haven't tried all the ones I own, I do have a an old Marshall with 80 watters that might sound really good and also one with 65's.
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i have never played one but i would love to! anyone close to me in alabama maybe we could do a meet up and i'll bring my modl t and you bring the enforcer?.
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I still have many unanswered question relating to the "Enforcer".
I currently own two and I will say they are amazing. I'm looking for a cab to match just for the sake of it.
Questions:
> What was Sunn's objective when designing this model?
> Was this REALLY used by as well as a Ted Nugent fav? If so I have never seen any documentation of such.
> What speakers were used in the 300W cab?
Any other related info is appreciated!
Mine just does the fuzz thing really, really well, I was wondering if mine was an anomaly or if others get the same kind of tone out of them? How do yours sound? I can dial in a pretty convincing 80s thrash tone by scooping the mids but I don't really ever play like that. Cleans at a high volume, forget it!
There was a fully loaded original Enforcer cab on ebay maybe 3-4 months ago - was over priced (I think $500) plus shipping and I think it was in California. To Texas, that would have been a fortune! They do sound pretty good with Marshall cabs, just make sure you 75 watt speakers in it.
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I'ts been a while since I've used them and I plan to again shortly so I will let you know! From what I remember they can produce an quality overdriven sound which isn't like most Sunns are made to do, probably more so than my Model T's, for sure more than the Sorado, 190, etc..
Yes I noticed the Enforcer cab on ebay also and thought it was a bit much w/shipping to invest in. I should take a couple Mesa oversize heavy monsters and load them with some good 80's....he he :wink:
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/mypickeeper/P1010011.jpg)
Mine just does the fuzz thing really, really well, I was wondering if mine was an anomaly or if others get the same kind of tone out of them? How do yours sound? I can dial in a pretty convincing 80s thrash tone by scooping the mids but I don't really ever play like that. Cleans at a high volume, forget it!
There was a fully loaded original Enforcer cab on ebay maybe 3-4 months ago - was over priced (I think $500) plus shipping and I think it was in California. To Texas, that would have been a fortune! They do sound pretty good with Marshall cabs, just make sure you 75 watt speakers in it.
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I'ts been a while since I've used them and I plan to again shortly so I will let you know! From what I remember they can produce an quality overdriven sound which isn't like most Sunns are made to do, probably more so than my Model T's, for sure more than the Sorado, 190, etc..
Yes I noticed the Enforcer cab on ebay also and thought it was a bit much w/shipping to invest in. I should take a couple Mesa oversize heavy monsters and load them with some good 80's....he he :wink:
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/mypickeeper/P1010011.jpg)
Mine just does the fuzz thing really, really well, I was wondering if mine was an anomaly or if others get the same kind of tone out of them? How do yours sound? I can dial in a pretty convincing 80s thrash tone by scooping the mids but I don't really ever play like that. Cleans at a high volume, forget it!
There was a fully loaded original Enforcer cab on ebay maybe 3-4 months ago - was over priced (I think $500) plus shipping and I think it was in California. To Texas, that would have been a fortune! They do sound pretty good with Marshall cabs, just make sure you 75 watt speakers in it.
If you ever want to sell one, keep me in mind! I'd love to have another - I use mine as one of my main amps. Nice setups you have!
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Thanks, I will keep you in mind if I go to sell! As you can see one of the Enforcers are of the earlier non-vent grill style.
Here are several Sunns and others in my collection, some aren't seen that are behind others.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/mypickeeper/P1010012.jpg)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/mypickeeper/P1010008.jpg)
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That's an awesome collection man! I don't have the room for that much gear lol - I got up to 14 guitars once and like 4 amps, a couple of bass rigs and a drum set and it took up my entire jam room! I have a general rule these days, if it doesn't get played for 6 months, it gets sold - so I can buy more stuff!
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Oh my ... GAS overload!
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ha ha....yes GAS....everyone has a little GAS in them :wink:
I learned through the years it's much more fun to have a few hobbies you can make a little business out of. That way you get such enjoyable exposure to those things you treasure the most!
Oh my ... GAS overload!
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nice laneys you've got there, ive been looking for a laney klipp forever
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Yes, Laney's are actually one of my favorite amps...They have such a full spectrum of sound and you get just as good or better amp than a Marshall of the same era for 1/2 to 1/3 the price...
I have an early LA100BL (not shown) that has all RS parts w/hand bent aluminum chassis that I understand was built while they were still working out of the "garage" :|
The Klipps are some unique and dynamic amps as well however I'm not overly impress with the "kilpp" channel as I believe it sounds a bit gritty.
Now for the "bomb" of the early Laneys....it's a "Music City" Plexi, not sure of the full story as I believe they were kinda like a "NARB" of the Laney world. It's kind of a Klipp/Supergroup hybrid on steroids (no kilpp channel) but has Treble and Bass boosts....I understand it was a special amp put together special thus the "signing". This amp is truly "Kick Ass".......
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/mypickeeper/P1010033.jpg)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/mypickeeper/P1010026.jpg)(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/mypickeeper/MusicCiy1.jpg)(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/mypickeeper/MusicCity6.jpg)(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn51/mypickeeper/MusicCity7.jpg)
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I don't think you can embed video here, but my other guitarist was testing his iphone 4 video last night and caught me noodling around during a break at rehearsal last night. Nothing fancy, in fact I had just broke a string and was out of tune. I think I had the volume down quite a bit as well so we could talk. But still gives you an idea of the Enforcer tone. Now that we know that videos work well, we plan on doing a few more at practice Wednesday night. At least I can now remember this little riffage lol, I totally forgot about this until he told me he recorded early (still not that great of a riff lol). But I can tell you that it doesn't sound quite as harsh live either, its more fuzzy sounding, the video pulled a lot of the bottom end out and left more mids and highs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa5cT-wvIMI
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For some reason these two were posted in the “Possible to revamp the Sunn Museum?” thread. :?
whoa, here's a picture of the camo enforcer, i'd never seen one before.
http://l26.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc3/hs148.snc3/17553_1189998957363_1450045372_30450521_869500_n.jpg (http://l26.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc3/hs148.snc3/17553_1189998957363_1450045372_30450521_869500_n.jpg)
whoa, here's a picture of the camo enforcer, i'd never seen one before.
http://l26.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc3/hs148.snc3/17553_1189998957363_1450045372_30450521_869500_n.jpg (http://l26.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc3/hs148.snc3/17553_1189998957363_1450045372_30450521_869500_n.jpg)
that is 1 of teds personal heads i believe where gave away in a contest to the fans
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That Enforcer sounds sick! And those Laneys are gorgeous. I need to stop looking at things...
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Now that's cool, I heard but haven't seen the cammo Penetrator before.
:-D
For some reason these two were posted in the “Possible to revamp the Sunn Museum?” thread. :?
whoa, here's a picture of the camo enforcer, i'd never seen one before.
http://l26.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc3/hs148.snc3/17553_1189998957363_1450045372_30450521_869500_n.jpg (http://l26.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc3/hs148.snc3/17553_1189998957363_1450045372_30450521_869500_n.jpg)
whoa, here's a picture of the camo enforcer, i'd never seen one before.
http://l26.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc3/hs148.snc3/17553_1189998957363_1450045372_30450521_869500_n.jpg (http://l26.sphotos.l3.fbcdn.net/hphotos-l3-snc3/hs148.snc3/17553_1189998957363_1450045372_30450521_869500_n.jpg)
that is 1 of teds personal heads i believe where gave away in a contest to the fans
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:-D
Okay....think this thread started over 8 years ago!
My number 5 Enforcer this with 4X12 just purchased on its way!
Can't believe I'm still collecting them....but how can you resist!
:wink:
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Easy for the rest of us to resist. You already have them all!
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Easy for the rest of us to resist. You already have them all!
Indeed...minus 2 :-o
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It was a very impulsive buy.... :|
I just was thinking about those amps and went to go look to see what was out there and bam! :-o :-D This is an early one so I'm sure without the mod but what the heck.
I did finally get a full stack with the A&B cabs a couple years ago which was cool as heck 8-)
Actually all my vintage collection will be going up for sale in the near future.
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Hey did you ever find a source for those corners? I could sure use some for restoring.
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No, there is no source for those corners other than savaging from other amps. I ended up buying a doa stinger just for the corners. Those corners were made to SUNN's order. They cut a corner off of a Kleenex box and used that as the original.
Here is a message from member Rex B from some years ago...
Hey Steve
No problem, you are welcome to send me messages directly through here, and I am more likely to find them than if you were to post them on the forum.
The cabinets on your Enforcer gear were designed slightly after I left Sunn to work at Fender, but I am somewhat familiar with their heritage. The cabinets of this final pre-Fender era were made by a company in Troutdale Oregon called "Bennett". They were done using a technique called Miter-Fold. I looked for Bennett Cabinets in Troudale on Google, and did not get a hit, so they may not be there anymore. I THINK the edging is a stock vinyl extrusion from some plastic fabricator , but unfortunately, I don't know who.
The corners have a more interesting story. Larry Davis, the mechanical engineer at the time, told me he took a plastic stacking Kleenex box, and cut the corners off at a 45 degree angle, (probably on a bandsaw). They used these as a pattern to make an injection mold for the corners. This is why those corners have kind of a sharp edge on them, and undercut toward the cabinet: they really should have beveled them the other direction so they didn't catch on things when you try to slide the cabinet. People have also been cut on them.
Regardless, I'm pretty sure Sunn owned the tooling on these, and they are probably not available through a 3rd party. You MAY try to contact Fender to see if you can get any from them, it's possible they may have some old stock. They may also have some of the edge molding, but I am pretty doubtful on both counts. I do suggest that you put a post on the forum asking if anyone has the molding and corners. Some of the employees from that era of Sunn may be more familiar with the suppliers. I would also suggest sending a message to Don T on this forum, he was involved with purchasing and production during this time.
Hope this helps, and good luck with your Sunn gear !
Rex B
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:-(
Well some sad news, the Enforcer amp and 4X12 cab purchased off Reverb was lost by UPS. :x
It reached it's destination hub which by mere coincidence is in "Tualatin Oregon" where it was originally made.
UPS is just down the road where the old Sunn plant used to be.....hmm trying to find it's way back home?
:-o
The head and cab were packaged together as well. It was scheduled out for delivery (signature required) on the 19th. Nothing more from there... Of course there is a "lost package" report and I should be covered by insurance in the event it doesn't show up but the question lays WHO in the &#%@ HAS IT!
(https://i.imgur.com/59niAN5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tUPZDHn.jpg)