The sunn Forum
Sunn Musical Equipment => Q & A => Topic started by: D.M.N. on August 03, 2016, 12:39:43 pm
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So as with many people here, for a long time I've been searching for a close match to the original, early Sunn grill cloth, used before the rectangular pattern (Fender-pattern) introduced in '69. For years there's been nothing, and from what I've heard the OEM (Wendell?) had some issues with making it due to some EPA concerns.
However, I think I might have found a solution, and I'd like to gauge interest.
Back during the 60s/70s, Traynor used a similar fabric on their grills. I don't know if it was dead-nuts the same, but from all the images I can find of the two types, they are quite close. Here's some examples of the Traynor and Sunn cloth:
Traynor
(http://www.vahan-michaelian.com/images/Amps/1969_Traynor_YBA-2B_Bass_Mate/1969_Traynor_YBA-2B_Bass_Mate001.jpg)
(http://www.vahan-michaelian.com/images/Amps/1975_Traynor_YBA-3_Custom_Special/1975_Traynor_YBA-3_Custom_Special001.jpg)
Sunn
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5263/5629433249_964980d40d_b.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/Matt_Larscheid/DSC_0012.jpg)
Now, like I said, maybe not the same, but pretty close, similar vibe. I've read other places that despite the differences that show here, the cloths were virtually identical and were just mounted with a different orientation. I don't know, I haven't actually seen both in person. Anyways, this brings me to the present. Traynor has reissued some old models like the Bass Mate, and appears to be using a replica of the old grill on some of their new equipment. Here's the new stuff:
(http://www.toogoodstudios.ca/files/guitar/YBA1-1.jpg)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-Zx96-qxZGo/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://www.upfrontguitars.com/images/D/darkhorse-full-01.jpg)
(https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/s--Dt9Exh92--/a_exif,c_limit,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_auto:eco,w_620/v1393615079/aibr6dmwv8nrvvlkmf4p.jpg)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/d4oQVNH2BbM/maxresdefault.jpg)
So I've been working on getting in touch with them to see if I could get the contact info for the OEM making it for them, and they've provided that to me, though they are unsure if the OEM only sells this cloth directly to them. What I'm wondering is if people would be interested in using this cloth as a replacement for the old Sunn stuff, to repair damaged grills, restore amps, etc, and most importantly, if people think it's close enough. I'll see if I can get a sample of the cloth from them, and if they'll be willing to sell in bulk.
Any and all responses welcome. If people have better photos of the old cloth and maybe traynor cloth, please post so we can get some better comparisons.
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That does sort of look close to the Sunn stuff. I actually have a vintage Traynor here for repair and I can compare it to the cloth on my early 2000S head and cab and maybe get some pictures of them together. I'll see what I can come up with this week.
Greg
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That does sort of look close to the Sunn stuff. I actually have a vintage Traynor here for repair and I can compare it to the cloth on my early 2000S head and cab and maybe get some pictures of them together. I'll see what I can come up with this week.
Greg
Cool, it'd be good to see them side by side in the same light setting!
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Took me awhile but I was finally able to get the pics for you. Here is my early 2000S head and cab next to an early Traynor YBA.....
They are similar to each other.
Greg
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Took me awhile but I was finally able to get the pics for you. Here is my early 2000S head and cab next to an early Traynor YBA.....
They are similar to each other.
Greg
Awesome, thank you! I actually recently got to spend some time with an OG 200s and took some good photos of the grill as well. From these photos Greg it looks like largely the difference lies in the orientation of the weave. It looks like the Traynors were put on so the dominant grill pattern went down and to the right, where as the Sunn grill went up and to the right. Does it strike you that the color is any different, or is any variation likely just due to aging?
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I think you are right DMN. Any difference is likely aging/smokey environment on one and not on other etc. They look very similar if you flip the Traynor on its side.
It wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturer was the same...which means they may not be able to reproduce that one either.....if they could just produce the look of it and who cares about the same exact materials, then I think a lot of people would be happy....
Greg
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So I've tried contacting the company Foss Manufacturing about a sample of the grill to check against, but have yet to hear anything back. However, I've been talking with Conrad about some cabinet restoration, and his recommendation for grill cloth is the Acoustic Solutions Acoustone p4540: https://acousticalsolutions.com/product/acoustone-amplifier-grille-cloth/ (https://acousticalsolutions.com/product/acoustone-amplifier-grille-cloth/)
So for now, that looks like the #1 solution for the original style Sunn grill cloth, recommended by the man himself.
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DMN, I'd be interested in hearing more about whatever you find out from Foss Manufacturing. If that stuff looks like what is on the Traynor then it seems to me that is closer to what is on the Sunn than the example at the link you provided. AIMS amps used the old Sunn stuff too, and I have one of those amps here that could use some grille cloth if I can find the good stuff.
Greg
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After a few emails and no response, I don't think we're going to get any solution from Foss Mfg. I did get a cloth sample from Acoustic Solutions, type p4540, and it seems to be quite accurate. The pattern appears almost identical, except mirrored across an axis. By mounting it "sideways" instead you could be very close to the up and to the right pattern of Sunn. Maybe not quite as silvery as the original Sunn. My recommendation is to contact Acoustic Solutions and request a swatch (it's free and quite sizable) to compare with your Sunn and AIMS amps. I've researched it but have only encountered the old Sunn grill a few times in person, someone with it to actually compare it to the sample one-to-one could make a better call.
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Just found this posting and requested a sample of the p4540. Looks to be very close to what Traynor is using and might be a good match to the older Sunn cloth. Thanks for the research into this!
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Just found this posting and requested a sample of the p4540. Looks to be very close to what Traynor is using and might be a good match to the older Sunn cloth. Thanks for the research into this!
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more pics...
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Yup. Not quite exact, the pattern would be closer if it was essentially mirrored or inverted, but it's quite close, and I'm thinking about giving all my later fender-style grills a facelift with it when I get the money.
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Alright, here's some updates. I've continued my search for a good replacement. Some people suggested Ampeg grill cloth was similar to the old Sunn stuff, so I dove into that and order some up. Looking at various images on the web, it does appear their late 60s/early 70s grill was close in design, however, the new production material that they have on their amps and that you can buy after market is quite different. Not only from Sunn, but from Ampeg's own earlier grill. I couldn't find a good match for the 70s Ampeg grill. That said, the new stuff doesn't look bad, just not quite right. Here are some comparisons between the Ampeg, Acoustone, and Wendell cloth currently on one of my cabs.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/djMInD0PUFSKy9B-DEx_n5fDde4j1H3dEB3gFTrUmvrQEOZWdn-q2z5pM2-qhc1vvcBfl_F5Rj1nwk6F3baTo942tPaQf7vTE9uXcwaX7Z_22z7FienXUqVX6Uc-xZS17mAPLcwzQxqIXma4ilHaXaPr0if1Nig32iBOjZ4URwn83yFSlA8s5qZDvoSVoIAhXwMcI-sj8vtkZKCerIGibiVEKR1p4bSV55FRV4PRLwQC7zkZFhcoqZ2_ye_B0jrdYVdxwFwjOx3sFAHhuRec_KDqvhdOnnWjj1kilAqAc-vdvJJ-Gar9PbvtsfnlV1dF8c-_5eD6zMLJN7_pntYrvWZSLncluDyHf-pJeaTnM0F8aTv-UCQOkQUfIQxGqHyw_yzSWZLuxp8Hjf1C9Pt1iw5JrvytEaXznME8Ff8KAuDikCzwfzXJRGV-oQOmYTyzn4uLg9mmhjfnycVUTXv3lEcOV2w0rWsdRMEqjVGGbHQ3nrwkqRdAGZBPLY0X7fb073oI0RBIRakKentFNkptdP0LEA5fTYZF-V9cvmJ6ECNuYHYEV_o5mjhrpCts9cRRwgU7m4nN8sF2oC1ffNlvMgjW8bf1ROHMsWHI_btoEg=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3_WF1Tfph18Stc1FtReHtMPfhbuZeAZmUlrPeaTw2uc9PoT9zS7iey4NV2pAqqd0MhU6Op9yown9MEC4Og8CJ_iAXT7Ysk-MSZoFg92CsaD4UuwjlvNTAnIIZW6gCz3hCZofQ0XKOw06WGMHpf7ri1EiLK2jsnTAA_wC8RU02MB3_bNAAmS_UfAx5s59HFbZ9Ac50eODpS75z0b1ZAd-wqA_Q5ZwenTbYJm9_E_gHuIjIB6pdxovgAu7allz4yN_AU3RM3Xoz-iKMnk_36onUPmrzUpje7GIanuRGoV3VJQKeD7gDyCzHq2p8Q-Ai9j8nS_Uk5e4stB_cKw7Z7wQseRlRTGShZ7-n749m31Waibfq7lHSpan7SCMhZC6Pr0gAVMuS71sinexEcK5uYPHcPtlNsABF1BcTl2sV1efqqrmKuPs77Wwdf5Dq7HsfDDXskIsBJLXSsPaxUaQBaT9FykTfKesNXxEtSGz2p1r-On2GWkvqojYUYk97znAURMB0HNBSxrml3SMeSj0O-MdFbfXhYzB932mNgqQ7FyxQDrLAhxfUFCuzhnngKOzs0ft_jCIXA6O_nQmalGlsLiaqLydhzRcmEEF4chnMk5Qzg=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rWf2wDVfNiAYtkpCf1vUP7c5ohoDwJeaeKXd_RhXXxAVjlntEVfbCVlokqtHmctq78Ntv0ynxHYEObZVcdFGOcDJZs1hVYifnCsMRgnbO08tn3VvwObZtPFXpef99zIaQNo3HglaZTGmw6KsgXZhUyEjwoo32rxoZk2kxeQURWLuVwha37Iv2TaHl4UkrXweGneKZS3ZAeDhJ2POhbryBkHW6wxKEgeqB2ithye__WyJF6ZyqMhTn_-zwwjD114MAziSJW4jq1KJlw_V0CDvy5g0dDFO_jJyJfYsxQPKkzxkdCI3EhsnOlaO7BUIhxV7yhaaCDedQkwIDhvxp-TIqGMs37Y-kjf02ces8s1v_ku0Iu7B_hy7RB31jTCeAmZSU_v2lAYv7xhoDiQOUdV-bwV_mo8J6YPVR-VAsW6efMleRzK8Hf2FuaA9S4dh1pCKToC1WC7Dh-ll3xbIIUsYKU4txOi9ArQA8FqZtk3Wou_-jeMrbOAwoBmEaljJ7sYjl-4f70UkzqjHMt4LjLGfv0_AmZdCwmmLJ1H9IJIXeI1yOsO6V9T1AmpqSuGH-CzqMdddkc-KPElpOYe6mw87NiSGA_QLH2YYrFp1-efIYQ=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mrBuaCQyAAtcHdb90Bx_syfF-DnMKnPaIHUmOofCw9qbWQHWp__2d3BRGcxrx2qFxJeGOrIoahNx8r-vWTqN6zh1jq5uXu9Sa7q9a1Y94crdMVM3b2ULp7CgZdf8a1wuMC4vGxnnQhatN5C8z0V_Z2uQEu3-UUzIpII1NzSl1Xaf-l1hnlyCtwz3lk13CJHWaX1PlF7LF4FCIHPGrpapAk3ZJ2hSdftg4x_IyWzGbCty3bi6n-DEHMEQaNqoC6krnCOpExrwp_bbnoKna-ki59gmMVeglil6TL0oHelcyHiCYgE9eKc95M49zkQnjbWprHmraUosDfHjNNY2Z8yVCZD2v8iTbSFFdvt6kbUF0WQvtzymlrv_dt7N9kkJxfrxjc9Qn23rWjYD2cwAEHOKZ3nIR3zR4ACEpuPWMvktU_LCTV9ew_g6QogbsY3OEjB-ePbRZsn46ifPsGRf8OLFNHRM0bGDTC5ekHkU2Z1WTTmLQoOEsPHKlwCd9z5BMmMVSDfxrzQUopLHRuF2HI4vcMGCovPw_KhiMBuEGVQU139HVPV-lk57Pcz4dv-sf5nOzyD5aD8ojVOC7owZrxe63T3xr2p_BnbL9Ij9B5BeGg=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xGGnsu_G_OOOy5H6SvdgtS4gqbVABRdfWHxjyZfmM6KHnRWRdA-QKZa6LL7TlnbdkC3QrEl9Lx1tZOEHvQSkB2JsKMMrFAfyz4O4gLM9VEBM2GRgChHJrDRnRJOPIRkaghsJjpl2QyHb4xWyyr22CHwGunT_zkQTY967KqQ1kREfz3FGHWV_Vvl40Z3Zb8-DqTqXi9su4CKghwSbX3aLjExmRl0xa4FQh462gBFL3MKft3zdkhoBH9QrR9QX0iVufIosdwt5JXs8Hi1IS0rzbBMQCQO3nYJOv7DbAvFmno4nI5QlN9pan6Wu6vjiDiK5t6wWHKZPwsNi7kJom9i9Vb6MkY4VUWQoc5ZibUPhx0VBFvmBu3V01GA0db1Utj_6zCnb8XxQOl1XZD8yZjnH3i39MxA9eS1X_u_c37Hc9U5bKqkaOSC9qG7XJKj_TUzF9oQP_g7ZClyYVQ2VBV_dSKsox-mSNISPr_D1ZFZxVwBXgtOzuWd_UkuFjXet5mvr4kEOSGY4E-QwzPM0jD55o3WdIZOnEomNI1QIo2HvIcUTT56g45LnLFvtCujn1yi7fj2cyDwCbpUhchBCJCAahXGlXKHzvKaqZOg-2o4tRQ=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SKIjw6lyv6CE-BCkgTs2AiFf_0fXP9gJ8Evxp--BcAi2F0v3F0Rne-vAjVmOSHXJ_FqU04eHmDAdgO11WcexSMkFTDAIQny_WOaVDcBmnfdwD64fhw1XnxGy7n4tUnKiAgmRQmu98ynH15SqeNpvH2lLlUaJLKHCuydjfiPkMY2FHKPDXTrD-w5j76AVJ1qogiV39D96lOkcaUrlgjiBSl9dA0CEJJJQ5_eZ1tu3sTi_w4AunNk86R97BMcHxNsbhPcD8CY8_0SzsweYkwDzcCOOY9KGzX8lnbHIII9NPWpPxf6s00ufOuL0dlRlCRRR68VeeouVIhH5sj4ZBzagwzrJzzz6k7IaagXjSDCp89RzIOKA2NlS7TAVSIq77ubp4EhaS2zd5ould7M_rACj78R42HwgSYrMhVkYXtrU2OnSC5VKE5CA2xBjVv0VuqBcuqmqWdvVU0OMGV6LrHVgZFsm3GaKHpqARlyHnku0qV9jlyJOQAo-X2ae5Jo-y6FLzUQybtjYLhbXlgtHwPc14UatcLJkp9z-2QU7OIKI5LgQNcn6S9YTrBnq6JNZGWuB8B_BcrYVIRr7pJeBBEJg0oi9Rswiabirbl8DU1nwgg=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UanUCAFtmytGdEIiV9zxUT74EL0B3L_MkAua-S6-WmM3AUZocb2tMa9iXDx8eFLNzXah4fe_uDxR8045KRTI__HZgU7Mh3qw9c9rm1Hb4WAJpOKLxQELOVkDy_wEElqlvMNZWWoIGrNWkdd3aa_kxgtrcG6exAvmXAN2-HM_3hWfoJgxSSIRwepEGoHe4o2ei-vx6rzc9wd2r5CaMko6tCCxROcn8--V6y63LZxM5QUg3smMnq1S1DabJvOQTmeNBdPjINOKbSiJkCt1685S6tkTAoNCKSEK3X4ODBOS3WgU_UWDASF3k8iNH08KWVzHxHDkua28nrFUVMTf6CvtLc0Th0Wa_K_vuFBxjOSFFn5Xe7u_hiTfhZDj6rABpDOPs2KlyUMBlyOHwcD5FuC1muU3wl1o1Ieq7y8SWueun1UU7KJcKK0iM3sqspOzmAkssUVXlN3h8heGeSTxBZx7xk0VvKk_N0LZurbDr9cobWCO5BAOpAXvgy23gpODQoNhiaGvnEn8BJhtrPyoV7BGLGg0n7R6MjBv-0eNYAmMRtj0CZFFp38DFWqe9pknueZQoDbz-TUDjHBD8oJ7fxcF4qYDeu7J4gXJj4d7r1ND5w=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/US8Uhm0vOYOwzLGmYqXIe9lnNYZz7LmQUInfSAA2hK5k0eiYswGyPytrT4YWOGbCreBglC9Kd58HeeYSH-uf6LGbkaCnVp_T3ap3hqA5agzrQ6GKoOicgQGq3UII6PHsbHYfJpC98m2F8yzTna9RdvoQ8Eh7COKM2Ybz129vY7LIwZrLJfmsrFbzy6Jp-Hhhqdeh9djaCS3ubl4Y8V-jF5-Dpybm4EKxMYsCuU56dDZ74WcVTR1F9AtlaDbbuQGs140kvCR_Cqd4RCRi5TZCcY9yISfO-bTRSAkGL-78Lr6nU2V_KtmbwfeLUnwm_vaXjpq40I6Gw1Vay7r57r2-1ZQ5VO6S-Hndki1APRKSEXyTBLkufR_jSGhm6lVHoBKJY0MRr7K7o7RkHpjQ88UmoGz_2LJ0EbfrzzcoPXXSwYEun1kMfkS3Y-iUPwUWWzaC-0U6i3g13TtB6THtBiSD6-0wlMFYbcxQte0fmgw7WhszjGHsdyFeemf0kTbGY4XBecmpgtklm9BUtEB0PsAo0_vqJ5vYYa9SxNx3QgoPlKY-YLOFXyEEUIrftIL7M-1VXk07R5tbdtLp5nek7q3rg-tT5MY2k3v148IuhXzMwg=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rhyfQGIccBtyUBnCpnU0HnqoLXJHm7-B0F_qCHu_Y216cqZAZh714A2pki8Kxpv2bOrcyfO_Q2eD0-n2Yj_tR_9sum3lbsb5KFp5LExog5VEtcKb2jmYFbvOMPC0t7X0fhjwyL9njZdJUJ21TF3GuyEkWKvMxQ5ug-nFzBJyjSyKKuLjQOT_eBha2tqj04ZpiOkTLxKI1LtWP-Un35kibrnlTkJ2Wkho2SD4S2fExsO069HFJtKiIAKimCzn8KGN2qAm4HA-SAs6dzIHiql0y3TMlYi8oC7cFmhdDSapk51qZW1OqRFA00ghfoT1BhjPzs1x7kxVGvi66Mf4aXdJgqUuOXAr74YQ4ekAoTvD115puQjGSSymBIkpA6mp_1vQm9OPH1lvRypPmuvpxyhhy5Kz2YvNc9EkvHQH1ZwFtJ_WuQJrTvuJTz6i1U0thzu8gYm444GKfGwN4aixw1LO2hzEgkunY65zK6CtAWbzDohSS-z5D6R3eIcELjaC7KERucJ70vaRS8lNWuLi3mqbADyOq6RXQzu6Hke9v74gy-6sFIcsV2D40j-NvnQXDHnHte52EJAGyCJXZkB0b75gQtId0DbGWi7B-KvKmkwiLw=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LENQDsMlrBeJifx0QVtAuGkxw1u1K0Pjy2iqeJx3Qs_sgrWUvvCzCen5Q-i9ScndrQ2g3RWZu--tO2YEgDQ-kV6_GhehAvhs5oZaiLVR5TJ8grPeeQ-RiqkoxnFM3Gh5f6ocg_IH6Kfzd75r9qNpJh78-4_4WCzSaY36Em-XDrkojuT6Zoa2Cq4t39AEz5q7UGIXV2PfstS9M71w6KJkywACNBjm59WbOnDJWNgTL7RukMUNBBjZ-EhMIsNbNg_RYwU73z2y-Y7qtwaRTEfK4uLeBMpoXz0C3_dJgJnggyGz0K_ACQeUk7vyyc-s8l8pB3vhC8cccu5Rq7Vt_sACNq7Vv_mTib2aUl_SKuRA1iSWtxlje4ssezrsUcdvO5ZDHT87BV6R8p7AVn8UkB-rmoe5M2KBqwmacJ-4lZihjfSVuFPD6f-9HAnCig8JUQ_roALLvrx2yKJMUKmghLvvwmYJkhiID3Aj2BX6wgZ4lR3duFmJ_D9pFXmZGf7MoWPvkyTs45_V0Mjc7F9rm_pydrgmSiub5turYZuTxWMOfACrdI5Hs64luF9KVRWCMHkbUWgNp3X9WJpGVDT4hUSu5iKg8tTM2xd9DiXkJWOPwg=w665-h886-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eR_cjnTZHK3hBHBceCnthdq7hwIAaTJFVVGh3xEhQuASy_3brxXICcoTXth8S2egH1vdmeNvNcS1_ld6aDResoumJ4tkOBliUs9zJDD_D6H6C9f9BUoLdFqLLaLzCj_e_bzm0gEcsnAF1xWt0WJmKXE0jpzF_2HNVpfGtUpX3EUYUZA5IHC-0Cwmxjxx46XxbkATQaGfGjnuaH3oULgyTos0gwAB_FtyowaCbVHYN-BJzxoLzR_WUYFwz_Gk54Mjxwi5o4FWhPa7dlveaz-spVDVvL1YQFkkvI2OtYRs-J3x124dhHeBex1vLeY4wZKm_SE4_MoOXIuUR29k9CfgNc0csOh0hWITNIM8ZaLUMzvOUy0hIYHuaXA-nA6lkXuFSMZL_vTK_sfJIOXlezvz4XiMVwkHFxZlQ8bMM47KLbQa57U__vE5G1xpC8vxbZJC6BtX8Ot4mRHw1pUiML6QPAF2EgDBSpuppcgYzLz9SQ0_DE_sVtjtYvl31MS06nufP0Q5vDix0xLw3TY8P9aDT9WNBNgO4iPrKRuKgiEjZz-u3b8mCi-l-u8XQLtajhGeh_j9ZDtdJg28tb2Vhq8WwTADedsAtala1tXa5Ge6Bg=s800)
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However, as is being discussed in this thread (http://sunnforum.ampage.org/index.php/topic,10394.0.html), the Acoustone has a minimum order and isn't cheap. I've continued to try to work with Traynor to see if it's possible to get some of their materiel. Previously, they told me to contact the manufacturer, Foss Mfg. However, after multiple emails and phone messages with no response, I did some more digging and discovered that back since at least 2011, you've been able to purchase Traynor reissue grill cloth through Long & McQuade in Canada. Unfortunately, it seems you could only get it in 36"x36" sections, so not enough for a 2000s cab. You can see an example of this Traynor cloth in this thread (https://www.guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/new-grill-cloth-day.62022/) It does not appear to be the same as the Acoustone, and may in fact prove to be the closest match to Sunn.
So, in continuing to talk to Traynor, they informed me that by contacting L&M, and asking for part #9887 (DESC:GRILLE CLOTH,YORKVILLE CUSTOM 36" W), you can order it in as long a length as you need, and the price is by the foot. Additionally, part #GC3 (DESC:VINTAGE GRILL CLOTH 36" X 60") comes in 36"x60". The price of the 36x36 piece I believe is $42, but L&M would need to be asked for the pricing on the other ones. SO, there we go, it looks like there are two viable options for the old style Sunn cloth, the Acoustone and Traynor, though, as of this writing, I have not had the chance to handle the Traynor cloth in hand. I'll likely be ordering some soon to assess, and will post when I get some.
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I'm not seeing any photos.
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I'm not seeing any photos.
In which post? They're displaying on the last post on Page 1, but there's no photos in the first post of page 2 (corrected a bad hyperlink I had posted)
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That may have been the problem.