The sunn Forum
Sunn Musical Equipment => DIY => Topic started by: ZiggyDude on February 06, 2011, 03:52:40 pm
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Greetings!
I just got my first Sunn cab! It is the 215B, white wood, clear black grill, original speakers with the tiny cones and square magnet.
Anyway - someone goofed about inside it some. It apparently was rattling and they reinforced it with wood blocks, screws, not sure what else. There is also some sort of stuffing in there and styrofoam. I was looking about some other threads here and it seems that some of that may be stock and some not. So, I was hoping for some help on what I should change (or not change) to get this right.
Pics on the way.
Thanx,
- Ziggy -
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Well – here we go! Refurb entry step one!
Today I took the speakers out and looked about inside. I shot a ton of pics. The ones that fit best I cropped and tried to fit in. With the grill off - this is my starting point.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/SunnFrontBefore.jpg)
Wheels
The cab has wheels screwed on the bottom. They are obviously not factory and are coming off. The stock receptacles are still on the side. I bet they are the same size as the old Ampeg and Acoustic. This is good as the Ernie Ball castor set will pop right in. So – that is set.
Rubber Feet
There are no feet on the bottom. Four feet are on the same side as the pop in wheel receptacles. So, my question here – is that correct? Should there be feet on that side? If not I will take them off and put them on the bottom.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/SunnRubberFoot.jpg)
Interior Construction.
There is a board – about 6” wide – that runs from the back to front of the cab between the two speakers. Reinforcing the cab I would say. It looks stock – is that so? Apparently it was put on with nails and was loose. The guys that sold it to me used drywall screws through the front of the cab to secure it and also put little blocks of wood, glue, and screws about it to secure it. I will repaint the front so at least the black screws don’t make a toothy grin on the white wood between the two speakers. They also put a few other wood strips to reinforce it – I need look to see if they are required.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/SunnThinkStockBrace.jpg)
Interior Insulation.
White Styrofoam is installed inside the cab on two sides. Vertically on the side across from the port and also the bottom. Fiberglas like insulation is on the back of the cab. There is no insulation on the top of the cab. There is no insulation on any surface touching the port except the bottom of the cab. Once again – how much is that correct?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/SunnStyrofoamandFluff.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/SunnStyrofoamandFluff.jpg)
Hardware.
A piece of one handle is cracked off. If anyone has a spare handle to sell please let me know. The back plate is fairly clean. There is a serial number that looks like “S 08312”. The word “Sunn” has the middle “un” gone. So it looks like “s n”. I wonder how to paint that back!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/SunnBrokenHandle.jpg)
Speakers.
Two Sunn 145 speakers. One has a white sticker on the magnet and the other a silver. The white one was made in Kentucky and the silver was Oregon. The white sticker one has “0145 08 510 2988” stamped on the magnet. The silver sticker one has nada on the magnet but there is 82-6127 on the inside of the speaker cone. I think that might be same as on the white tag speaker. The white tag speaker also has “510” and 3153” stamped on the sticker. I am curious if one was a replacement speaker and if so which was the original?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/SunnWhiteSticker.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/SunnSilverSticker.jpg)
Tolex
Pretty good! The back is starting to peal off – I will eventually try to glue it back. Any ideas how are welcome. In the past I found Elmer’s Glue good and use painters tape to hold the tolex in place until it dries. The tape does not get glued on the cab for some reason – comes right off. Any holes from moving the wheels or rubber bumpers I can plug and then cover with this liquid rubber stuff I have. Patches up pretty good.
So, for now, just a few questions. The big ones are about the rubber feet and the insulation that I need info on right away. I play on Saturday and would love to have this all ready to go. Let it be standing tall and looking good for its first job!!!!!
- Ziggy -
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Hey Ziggy - congrats on the cab pick up. I love doing what you're beginning to do. Not sure how bad the tolex peeling is, but if it's just small sections and peel back spots, I've found that super glue type stuff works real good. One of those products comes with a small brush that works better than squeeze on. You just don't have a lot of time to work with it before it sticks, but it works very well.
Keep us posted. 8-)
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Thanks much-much on the tip!!!!!!!!!!
I was going to try warm it with heat lights and wet it to soften and put back - but your idea is less severe and better to try first.
I am a bit stunned on no replies regarding the insualtion and rubber feet. Why? I can not believe this thing is rare - someone must know.
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i have one of those-unfortunately dont know much about it. never opened it up. it works great.
mine has rubber feet right next to the castors and also on the long end-if you want to stand it up-which i normally do. sorry cant be of more help. you got a good one there!
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You did help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did a Google search for pics and found them with and with out. You are now telling me that it is both. Also - I think that the feet on the castor side I have are original from the pics I found. Rather large and do not have a steel insert inside.
This is an advancement! I will take off the lower castors and plug those offensive holes. Then take feet on side that are a pain and put on the bottom. So far "Stock". But makes it eaier to load. An "Action Item" is to then get four more feet to set things right for the side someday. I will also get the EBMM wheels to get this baby a rolling.
In the same Google search I found that the front to back brace is correct and that I also need to remove the "Fluffy Stuff" on the back wall. I am still in limbo on the styrofoam.
Thanks to all that take the time to help return this Sunn to being new again.
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Ok now that you've got pics, and some answers I'll do some clarification work for you since I have my near-mint and more or less stock 215B right here with me in my apartment.
There are supposed to be four rubber feet on the bottom with NO casters and four rubber feet on the right side of the cab (front facing you) with casters which are directly above and below the rubber feet.
There is a brace in the middle of the cab and no insulation (though this tends to vary but I've never had a Sunn cab of the Hartzell era
with insulation in it).
As for speakers, mine has Electro-Voice Series II EVM-15Bs, can't say for certain if they're stock but they've got the biggest magnets I've ever seen on any speaker.
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Interesting - this post just got moved and all the links to the pics got hosed. I guess I will need to edit that. As a "Newbie" here I guess I need to know what caused this. Just learning - no attitude.
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Step 2
After help from folks I think I have enough information to get started. It seems that the rubber feet I have on the long end are original. I guess so you could lay that long port on the floor. The feet surprised me as they are actually quite pristine. They are a pain while loading the rig though – and I noticed that at least one looks like it was hit and is partially knocked crooked. My plans for now are to relocate them to the bottom. They are also quite tall and get the cab higher off the floor than one would normally want - so I might look for lower ones and preserve the pristine feet for a time this stays on display. For now - this guy is going giggin'.
Here is a pic of my starting point. Man – this baby has ugly feet!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BUglyWheels.jpg)
Anything mounted with hex head screws that size is going to be massive. It took a ratchet wrench and some good twisting to get them off. By looking at all the sawdust, wood in the tracks of the screws, and the way the tolex is torn up you can really see the damage. It is hard to see in photo - but wood lives in the grooves of the screws.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BOneWheelOff.jpg)
All four off. Not a pretty sight! I had to pour myself a stiff drink.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BAllOff-1.jpg)
An examination of the bottoms showed they came from a little hardware store in Michigan. I am in Pennsylvania. I am curious the story how the cab got here for me to acquire in a Craigslist ad. Was it someone’s Ebay victory? Someone moved? If only it could talk.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BWheelsLocation.jpg)
OK – can anyone guess what this wood is for? Hey! How did that fluid level go up???
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BNextStepWood.jpg)
- Ziggy -
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OK - finally got this right.
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For Tolex gluing, I use Titebond Liquid Hide Wood Glue. It was recommended to me by a fellow who restores vintage amps and cabs here in St. Louis, and has worked really well for the repairs I've had to make.
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Ziggy, this just came to mind. When mounting the Ernie Ball casters to the side, DO NOT just start screwing them in, bore the holes wider for the screws that come with the set, Sunn used smaller screws with the original casters, which I still have BTW if you're interested (took mine out just because I didn't wanna wreck them). And I wouldn't bother moving the feet, your best bet would be putting some temporary ones on the bottom til you find an original set.
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Hi Walt
Thanks for the Heads Up. It is much appreciated. I did not have to take out the old castor receivers - the EBMM just popped in. The EBMM were tighter than the Sunn ones - but definitely OK for domestic use.
Actually – you bring up the most interesting point. Fromt the concept of “Restoration” does one stay with the somewhat dulled and corroded female units or put in bright and shiny new units? After all – I have them with the set. It would make the cab sparkle and shine. If this was a car and folks were rebuilding for a car show it would be a no brainer – put in the new ones. After all – you are trying to take this “Old Workhorse” and make it stand tall and be proud. But the alternative idea is to preserve all that once was and is was.
I think that Spock did that thing with the passing of others in some brain meld finger thing. But returning to Earth – a future question to debate is if I should replace the female halves of the castors….
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I got a bunch of pics shot and did more work - taking some time to get it all edited right before I post here. But for now - I need ask about the white paint. Does anyone know if that is latex or oil based? I am going to need paint over the white area.
Thanx,
- Ziggy -
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The white strip just below the sunn badge or the interior?
When I'm fixing up a cab I fix up everything that doesn't work, so if it works keep it.
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This would be the wood that the speakers are mounted on and visible through the grill cloth. It needs repainted after repairs.
Thanx
Ziggy.
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Step 3
OK so now I have an open area. But I also have quarter inch holes through the speaker body. So, we do some measuring (like 3 times over to prevent the “Measure once cut twice” thing). So out comes the miter box and the slow but accurate hack saw. “Rir-un-rir-un-rir-un-rir…” Ugh. But I do get results. In each case I pour mega wood glue into the hole and then drive a round wood dowel into it. This has to be pushed so that it is under the flush line of the cab. A punch helped. For the first one this was a lot of work!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BPlugHoles.jpg)
I got better with time and finished the other three – oh that felt good. Finally I get the 16 holes plugged but you can see there is still a lot of damage to the old tolex and wood. Mostly parts of loose tendrils popping up and looking mangy.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BAllHolesPluggedRough.jpg)
The next step was to trim that. This required a variety of tools. The Dremel was good for removing lots of bulk (Still on a miniature level) while the X-Acto blade did a lot of work, If I could only have one tool – it would be the blade – but never far from the sharpening stone that kept it quite deadly. I even tried a chisel. So now what? We got an ugly bottom and lots of torn stuff. Once again the Dremel and blade came out for that. In time the blade was the best tool. In the end all was flat and trim and read to go. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BAllHolesPluggedandTrimmed.jpg)
Eventually the wood glue dried and the next step. I spent a huge amount of time with bright lights and magnifying glasses to trim the crap about each plugged hole. Then it was time to fix the loss of the tolex. The can of instant rubber glue was great for this. It is made for dipping things and getting rubberized handles and such. I cut some more off my piece of round ¼ inch stick to stir it. Hey – after all – you never know when you are going to need a rubber coated stick :- ) After much work the bottom of the box looks like this.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BAllHolesRubberized.jpg)
Well, I guess that I should have taken a picture after I washed things up, but I did not. However, you saw the cleaned up pic earlier before the rubberizing. A close inspection would of course show what happened – but from a distance it was invisible. Hey – this is just for the bottom of the cab!
So, things are looking pretty good down below. I then go over the tolex of the rest of the cab with the liquid rubber. It dries to the same color and gloss of the tolex and blends in. This way the little pulls and scrapes of the amp are touched up. Not sure how to shoot pics of that – but later I will get it in.
Now the real pain. Waves and waves of unending pain. Getting that !@#$%^ insulation out. Not just the insulation but all the glue, nails, and staples that some “Well Meaning” person put in. I have gone through this before with the 406. I remember the “Snoopy Saying” of “Curse You Red Barron”. I pull some of the fluffy insulation out and later notice my finger feels like it got cut – but I can see no cut. OK – rubber gloves time.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BStartingtoremovefluff.jpg)
Curse You Red Barron
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BPullingNails.jpg)
A variety of tools were required. Curse You Red Barron!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BChiselInside.jpg)
Eventually I got all of the crap out. The kitchen size garbage bag that I put this stuff and only this stuff into. I can promise you I did not “Fluff” the bag to look bigger. CURSE YOU RED BARRON!!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BInsulationGarbage.jpg)
I was hurrying as I needed to gig the amp that night. We are in no way even close to being done – but I have to get it operational for now. I don’t want the five ugly screw heads on the face plate to show - so a piece of white plastic bandage tape does nicely for now to hide them.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BTapedScrewHeads.jpg)
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You did help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also - I think that the feet on the castor side I have are original from the pics I found. Rather large and do not have a steel insert inside.
Zig, Those are the original rubber feet. A lot of the Sunn equipment from the 70's came with those tound trapazoid profile feet. I bought some extras back then and think that I still have 3 or maybe 4 somewhere in my parts bin.
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OK – time to get ready to roll off and rock. Err – Rock n Roll. Well to do that I need wheels. Here we go! The Ernie Ball (EBMM) wheels sets pop into vintage Acoustic, Ampeg, and now Sunn stuff. Works just great. There is a slight difference in the play regarding when the restraining ring grabs – but not a big deal. Actually – I was quite tempted to pop in the EBMM female retainers. They are so shiny-shiny. It would make the cab glisten in a way. But in a very small way be less “Correct”. If I was restoring a car I would put on an aftermarket shiny bumper if the old chrome was bad. So – what to do here? Feel free to vote. By the way – the pic does not do justice – the EBMM look like a mirror and the old are gray.
Kinda cool that the EBMM box uses the Sunn red and black!!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BWheelbox.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BNewandOldWheels.jpg)
Now to put the grill back on. The inside of the thing changed color after I vacuumed it!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BDustyGrill.jpg)
Then the next issue popped up. It looked like the grill was warped.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BBrokenScreen.jpg)
But it turns out that it was cracked and someone was a really bad shot at trying to staple it back together. This will be a job for later. Right now I need to get gigging. I pop the grill on and load the expectant cab into the truck and its long awaited debut. Curse You Red Barron…
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BBrokenGrillStaples.jpg)
OK – I’m done. I was about to do other stuff but Mr. Clock said no. (Curse You Mr. Clock!) Pack F-150, drive, arrive, unload, and Roll (no Rockin’) into club. A back up 370 as the primary was just out of the repair shop and though a talented fellow, he was not “Acoustic Experienced” (another story – very dread, very dread). At 45 pounds each that is weight to carry. So, they get a ride on the cab. Like, I like me new wheel deal thingies - like! Yippee!! OK – that was nice. Like wow, that is happening. (Too much 80s yet? – Nah!)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BRollingintoGig.jpg)
We gig - guitars for this night - I chose a random but "test" selection for da cab.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BAfterGigRig.jpg)
Sorry for any blurry pics - but this whole thing was shot from the camera phone on my BugDroid. Odd that it was more fuzzy at the end of the night. Curse you Mr. BugDroid!!
OK – after this it gets more tedious (though fun). Plus I am a week behind with this and it is like after 12:30 tonight – so I just gotta quit. Tons of pics shot and stuff done but editing and words not ready to post. It may surprise one – but this takes work – especially when chasing a 3 year old. (Why did they have to have such quick feet and hands? Someone needs revisit the design blueprint on this one :-> ) I hope that at least a few have found this ride fun so far. Very few post backs.
Anyway - I wish best to all.
- Ziggy -
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how much did that mockingbird cost you?
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Not near as much as the Alembic Rogue sitting in the other guitar stand :-) The Mock is a 1984, seen more gigs on the Jersey circuit and now here in PA with me. I found it 9 or 10 years ago hanging on the rack of this store in North Jersey that was old when I was a kid. They never did the Internet thing and have a bunch of really cool stuff. Anyway, the Mock was on the wall in used condition. There is a story behind it, but to cut to the quick now it is my best sounding bass. If you hear the band on a recording you kow if the Mock was there. Band mates love it.
I went on queste a quest to find a 5 string that sounded like it. Nothing did. I eventually found out that a guy named Neal Moser was with BC Rich way back and designed the electrics and a lot of the other stuff BC did (like the Bich body shape). Neal has been in the business forever - been to like 38 NAMM shows. So, to get a 5 string with the sound of the Mock I went to "The Creator". We worked out all the details to replicate the tone. I finally got it last year - of course UPS broke it and I had to send it back. Here is a link to it - curious what you think...
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/i-just-got-my-moser-spawn-5-a-646652/ (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/i-just-got-my-moser-spawn-5-a-646652/)
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I know Neal quite well and am good friends with him, I had/have a basses made by him, nicest guy on Earth. I remember seeing that 5 string spawn in person, it's a shame UPS eff'ed it up.
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Yeah - he mentioned that a few guys were in for what is now 2 NAMM shows ago - and picked up their stuff while in the area - tried it out. A little weird that I was not the first guy to play it - but overall just as well. You guys all know the girl you lost :-)
The neck was a "twit" wider than I planned - but better than a "twit" slimmer. Overall a piece of art. Nobody knows what it is like to own a guitar until a master craftsmen makes one to fit your own hand and mind. I am truly happy that Neal and I hooked up. He is one of the people that created what we all know now. There should be a Hall of Fame somewhere.
But - we stray from the subject at hand. At present i am working on copious measurements of the cab to build a "Blue Print" and also have the numbers to calcualte all that weird stuff they need to know to match speakers in todays complex world. When I get that done I will post it to the forum as a "Draft" and we can all chime in until all are sure it is right. Then we have a new thing for the Sunn library.
Next post is what I did after the first gig - after all - the lovely young thing was far from fixed yet!
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OK - Forget - is this chapter 4 or 5?
At the club the grill is flopping about on the corner since the plastic “Velcro like” piece is missing. The old “Wedge It with a Piece of Bar Coaster” trick worked great. Sadly no gig shots – that would have been nice. Lending out a camera phone never works – don’t even try now
The job went well. People had fun and so did the Ziggy. The club was a place that requires you to be on the quiet side. On top of that the room has an odd shape and some areas along the right side get a lot of bass while the rest of the room is fairly even with less. You would never know unless you have a wireless. (If you get compulsive on tone – a wireless is required) It did explain customer comments (too quiet or too loud). So – how did it sound? Great if I was standing next to it. A quick summary is that there was a mid range presence that was evenly dispersed across the room in both tone and volume. But the low end quake was limited to only in certain areas. Despite the massive port this was not an earthquake machine. On the other hand it moved enough air that I could be at a reasonable volume on stage and be heard anywhere across the room. Part of this is the tuning of the cab – which some feel is about 60 HZ, maybe down to 45. The tone may not be perfect but I was heard. So, you need to decide how many people can tell the difference.
But this is just one room and that alone a test does not make. I have plans to try this a few more times. The vintage speaker is only rated at 100 watts and was at its limit and edged farting. Considering this is a quiet room I need something that can get a bit more dominent. I have no intention of blowing the vintage Sunn speaker so while gigging the cab I will pop something else in.
If you have any ideas – there is a speaker thread going at
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/get-eminence-gamma-vs-delta-vs-legend-15s-743350/
(http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/get-eminence-gamma-vs-delta-vs-legend-15s-743350/)
OK – now back to work. Off comes the grill and out the speakers. First I attack the 5 ugly screws. They need to be recessed further so that I can putty over them. A Dremel with a router bit deepens the holes and the screws then replaced.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BDremelOutScrewHoles.jpg)
The old gaskets are shot and range from gone to full thickness. They are surely leaking and possibly rattle prone. Also – ugly and though the speaker covers them I hate just knowing they are there.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BScrapeGasketsStart.jpg)
It takes a lot of work to get these things off! And a mess – I start to wonder if I should have just left them alone. Leave sleeping doges … Curse you Mr. Speaker Gaskets! Eventually after trying chisels and sand paper – the trusty X-Acto blade works the best. What is interesting is that traces remain. This is because residual parts of the gasket filled sunken areas in the wood and helped smooth it all out.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BGasketRemovalAfter.jpg)
Now to fill the holes – I tried a couple of types of putty and this stuff worked best. Very fast drying and really easy to sand. I also go after little dents, some ripped up wood, holes from the staple gun that put this together. I found that both the X-Acto blade and a stiff guitar pick do well in forming the stuff. OK – also a shameless plug :-)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BWoodPuttynotSanded.jpg)
All sanded down and ready for the paint. The cab was originally sprayed and that of course has a different look and feel from brushed paint. So, I decide to go the spray route. This was a bit scary as there is the oil over latex or latex over oil based thing going. A search of a really good primer (can pictured) was the answer. I used less than half a can and I really hosed it up good. Needless the say I wanted to do no harm. I taped over all the internal parts and wires. Plastic bagged the long wires. Painter taped that cab from every angle. And now – we have “The Mummy” of bass cabs.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BMummyfied.jpg)
It was an odd day – the Bass Gods smiled upon me and granted 70 degree weather in February so I could paint outside. Carried the cab out (light w/o speakers!) and set to work. Of course that was when the 50 MPH winds expected that night to bring in the coming cold front started. My spray can becomes increasingly disobedient. Curse You Mr. Wind!!!!!!
The primer dries in 15 minutes and I take it to the garage to finish with the overcoat. A couple of days later I pull off the half a roll of tape used and – here she is!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BAfterPaint.jpg)
OK - sorry that is all for now. I am currently caught up in a speaker thing. Also some soul searching on which feet to use. After all - why risk pristine vintage parts to the rigors of club stuff. That just aint right.
Oh - by the way - word of warning. If you painter tape over the white lettering of the Sunn cab - cover it with paper first. The painters tape removed just a hint of white paint. Not enough to do damage - but it did adhere. The red seemed OK - but may as well cover that to. My lesson learned and future advice to you!!!
Best to all,
- Ziggy -
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Ziggy I wouldn't be able to convince you to trade/sell me one of those 370s?
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Ziggy I wouldn't be able to convince you to trade/sell me one of those 370s?
I do have some stuff for sale and trade. As always it matters what for what. Here is a sampling of the heads. (Trivia points - which one is the most rare?)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/SomeoftheStuffforSaleandTrade.jpg)
I am not sure how to ship the Cascade Kustom - it is all but mint. The pic turned the Acoustic blue to gray and the Kuston green to blue. Go figure.... Curse You Mr. Color Demon!!
Walt - I will get back to you on more details.
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Hello – well here we go again. It was a really hectic week. Work and also the daily life stuff. Worked late two nights as someone’s server setup was blowing my code in production – at night of course. Yup , I know, it is tough all over for everyone else to.
So, I did the limit for the next gig. Sorry.
The first step was the grill. I will post a couple of older pics just to refresh the memories. Basically – the old grill was cracked and the cause seemed to be a demonic staple gun (You guessed it! – “Curse You Mr. Demonic Staple Gun!!”) The wood for the grill is hewn from a single piece of plywood. Like – cut out a really large donut hole. I guess they had a use for the wood elsewhere. Maybe the combos or something – maybe the boss wanted a coffee table. Well – I have restrung grill cloth from scratch before (the Acoustic 406 grill is a redo) and I was not going to just do it again. So a repair comes first. I guess this is my first short cut? I actually feel kinda bad about that. But – not bad enough :-> After carefully measuring I determined that the grill was suspended from the wood by about 3/8” over much the cab. That was enough room for a brace. So I try glue and steel. (Trivia points – what 80’s movie was driven by the search for “The Secret of Steel”?). It still won’t be right as I am missing part of the plastic Velcro like (not “Like”) speaker holder snap thingie on one corner. But we are approaching squareness for the cab parts now. In wood working – squareness is goodness.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BBrokenScreen.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BBrokenGrillStaples.jpg)
So we pry the stuff out and hope it will not self destruct something. I am actually pretty worried. Why the heck did some guy deploy the Demonic Staple Gun? There must have been some reason. Unless he was totally buzzed or something. But even then it seems like a lot of work to pry off a grill just to shoot a few staple.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BPullingStaples.jpg)
I try a few ways to get glue into the deep crack. The injection method was OK (water plus glue) – but once again spackling with e A-Acto blade did the best. If you ever do this type of thing – make sure you have an X-Acto #1 blade.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BInjectGlue.jpg)
So now we add the real deal. I was careful to drill holes first before putting the screws in . They are self tapping but I don’t trust the wood. It was really soft. I suspect this thing lived in a moist place for some time. I actually had to back out the screws and add wood glue inside and redo the drill. The material was just coming soft. I don’t think it was the fault of Sunn so much as an abused childhood before the thing got to me. But it avoids making a plywood donut hole. Please note that the screws are not all the way flush with the metal. The wood would not allow the extra torque. I really hope I don’ have to come back here.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BGrillSteelBrace.jpg)
We pop the grill on and mucho better. After I get the plastic grill holder what you call it thingie inside I should be square. Square is goo. Yeah – we been there.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/IMG_20110225_144516.jpg[/[img]]
OK – now we need speakers. Strange that we should need fill the holes of the beast. I am not going to put the stock speakers in harms way as they farted out last job. A set of 600 watt Carvin neos will be the test client. I took them out of the Acoustic 406 – these have not been tested in battle yet. From the Carvin forum these are made by Celestion which does not give Ziggy the Bass Player confidence. “Dang – Aint Those Mawschaul Speakas?” I can say that they sounded good in the 406. I had the mighty Acoustic 370 up to 4 with the bass boosted and with an active bass. To cut to the quick – they sounded pretty good and they can handle some abuse. They took power that would have shredded the stock speakers (not a fair fight). What I am trying to say here is that I want to give the cab a fair test in a new world of high power heads, active basses, and of course we are not giving it PA support.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BNeo.jpg)
OK – off to the gig. This is actually an odd room. They made a basement into a club. We are talking bass player doom and glee all in one. Hard walls, tiled floors, but also an odd shape. Not a place for extreme volume but you can get loud enough for fun (then stop). Since the place is so hard (surfaced) I actually have seen a little 1x15 or 4x10 cabs fill the place. A place forth small stuff to pretend to be big. So – it is a place that small amps can roam and fill – though at the resulting loss of granularity in tone is noteworthy if you care. The big box still wins in this place like always – you just need be really careful with the volume dial. Big time on that. Train wreck if you don’t.
Toys for the night. I had the rhythm intro of “Dr Feel Good” going through my head all day and I could not stop myself – I took the Nikki Sixx bass out tonight. It photographs lousy. Stealth paint.
The cab did well – but I was very frustrated at a sudden drop off on the ultra low end. Also – if I got to aggressive I could still make the speakers fart. It took more work, but I could do it. I gotta work on this.
Somehow the camera phone would not take a pic of that black bass!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BBassesGig2.jpg)
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Rubber Feet
Well – time to decide what to do about the feet. The original ones were on the side and whoever put those wheels on removed the bottom ones. The four feet I have look very nice – almost mint. One had a bent screw inside from sometime in it’s previous life the cab took a shot while loading. Actually, I was thinking about removing the side feet just for that reason. I was not planning to set the cab sideways when I use it. So, no real need for it.
We all know what happens to the rubber feet on cabs when they are gigged. They are simply no match for the gravel in parking lots, dragged over floors, bumped, bashed, bounced, whatever. In fact during the limited use I have had with the cab I could see some very faint impressions from the gravel. So, the feet come off and go in a carefully labeled parts bag in case the cab ever becomes a museum piece.
So, I have two choices. The original foot is also pictured.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BFeetSide.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BFeetTop.jpg)
These are both from Antique Electronics Supply. I was thinking that the shorter one would be nice as it will get the cab closer to the ground and help with low end bass response some. The other foot is a twit taller than the original and a pretty good replacement. The shorter one could also be put on the side of the cab and not be too much of an obstruction while loading the cab – so that has merit.
Unfortunately the brass ring in the short one is too small for the screws that the other two feet use. I am not going to drill new holes. I guess I could plug the existing and then screw in the smaller screws into the same spot. If anyone later wanted to put the original feet back on it would be easy to enlarge the hole a bit and just put them on. So, I find myself in that state where you just can’t make a decision. Take the easy road and put the new big ones on or get into a lot more work. Just for feet? Actually – I hear some people are really into feet. I never understood the obsession personally. An old story I heard once from a far too shapely lass way back comes to mind - but nobody here would be interested.
To pass the time I instead start on the screw holes for the two speakers. They are of course wood and a few have stripped out. I take my time and carefully drip small amounts of wood glue in the holes. You can’t go too fast or it just drips out the other side. Just a little at a time and keep working all the holes while the others dry up a bit and get tacky. As I am working the glue on my cardboard pallet also gets thicker and makes the job easier.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B/Sunn215BFillScrewHoles.jpg)
After a couple of days I will repeat the procedure on any holes that look large still. Also – I will drill out any holes that may looked very much filled. The glue can actually be stronger than the wood. So, I will treat them like a fresh install.
Looking back I should have done this before I painted the front with the fresh coat of white. But I was in a hurry to get the cab gig ready and I did not realize how bad some of the holes are. And, I have been pulling speakers in and out of this quite a bit lately and that has also loosened up the holes some.
By the way – do NOT put the screws back in while the glue is wet! At least not if you plan on taking them out someday. I did that once repairing the guitar strap button on my EB3. One day I wanted to take the strap off and wound up taking the bass to a machine shop where they sheared off the top of the screw and drilled it out. Not a pretty site and a real pain in the butt!
Well – after this I have another trip to addressing the tolex. It looks nice but I would like to make it nicer. I saw on another refurb thread that someone had used show polish and then an Armor-All like treatment. The shoe polish caught me off guard. Has anyone tried this? What are the pros and cons?
Oh – and I still need decide on them thar feet!!!!! Curse You Mr. Rubber Foot Demon!
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Cab looks great! I can second the shoe dye. Worked suprising well on the cabs I've been restoring and looks great. Not sure if I would recommend Armor-All since I like a gloss free finish but perhaps there is a no gloss version that would work well.
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Well - I am sorry for so long as I have been as busy as poop. So here is the update. The Carvin neo speakers also failed. Keep in mind which Carvin as they outsource and the current line up is Celestion. But the same problem existed with over excursion. Better than the Kappas and louder than the stock - but still a problem and gave me power handling problems.
The problem has been tracked to the size of the opening of the entry point of the big port. Too big - too much air. Many of the newer speakers seem to be designed for smaller cabs.
Now things start to get better. I dropped in a set of older Carvin PS15-8 that were made by Eminence. These were disontinued as few years ago and showed up as both Carvin and Emmy speakers. Best if you bought them. They are GREAT!!!!!! I put them in the 215B and it roared to life!!!!! These speakers are old school big cab with new school power handling and love the cab.
I have had these in my Acoustic 406 for a while. Just a great combination!!!!! It was hard to take them out just to let the Sunn try them. But it was my only free set (anotehr is in PA cabs - hmmmm)
We just played a job. Stage was very high. Room medium to small. At lesser volumes the rig did well. The big horn gave some of the W Bin feel and gave a low end to the room that a normal 2x15 could not do. It was directional though and I had to move the cab to the best position. Power handling better but I did reach the "Fart Line". So - given the speakers to help. Yet I think that I need to follow other Sunn advisors and choke some of the air off in the baffle
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Itsss Ba-aack…….
Well – it has been some time and I am FINALLY getting around to this. So many projects and so little time. Both bands have been slow as of late – so I find myself with the time to start doing stuff.
Just to summarize to date. I used the Carvin neo speakers at a job and they failed to handle higher volumes w/o farting out. The suspension is not tight enough for a big well vented cab. I then dropped in a set of older 400 watt Carvin PS15s. Now, one has to be careful here as over the years this speaker really differs. These are the last that Carvin carried that still had the big label on the back – and also Eminence made. The suspension is incredibly stiff. The also have the ribbed surround and not the foam of the earlier PS15. When I put these in the Sunn the cab just roared to life! It was amazing at how much tone and dispersion of the sound suddenly happened. Strong tight lows and bright enough not to need a tweeter. I love these speakers – wish I could find more.
The next job was at a place where we get pretty freagin’ loud. The stage is heavily carpeted under and behind and some cabs do not project well. The Sunn did fine and filled the room nicely. I noticed that the low end tended to be a bit heavier on tne side of the room opposite of the port. Due to the cab configuration or the room? Someday I need to experiment. My lead player is a fellow gear slut and we are always surprising each other with something new. He saw the cab and sid – hey that is pretty!
It sounded nice. Not quite as articulate as the 406W (with same speakers) but had an easier time chucking low end. I had gotten through half the night when suddenly disaster struck! I suddenly got a vibrating sound. It sounded like an impact drill or jack hammer. Horrid. It sustained for a few beets and I had to stop playing a split second to get it to stop. I babied it for the rest of the job. This was not ready for prime time.
When originally made – this cab was rated at 160 watts. I took it to 800. That and I tend to pin the 31HZ slider. The cab is not the best made using nails, staples, and not enough screws or enough glue. Time to firm it up – a lot! Back to the workshop! Better yet – time to tinker – (evil Dr laugh sample now played) Whah-hah-hah…
Out came the speakers and returned to the Acoustic 406wide that was their original home. They are gonna stay there. I will find more for Mr. 215B.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/Acoustic406W320.jpg)
An examination of the cab at first turned up little until I started “Thinking Like a Speaker” in how I might vibrate wood. Then I found these areas:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/CabFrontLetters.jpg)
A – This screw that holds part of the speaker also doubles in reinforcing the front baffle to the angular vent plate behind it. It may not have been intended that way – but it works out that way.
B - The wood lip or edge that covers a part of the front vent is loose. It has always wiggled slightly but now the upper section is much looser. Behind it there is now a layer of something detached from the main cab. I can’t see it but it might be a wood slice the length of the upper half vent and about 1/2” wide.
C – There are multiple layers of wood up here. Some can wiggle about a bit.
D – This still has a slight play similar to how the top half used to be.
I remember once a guy that once mentioned something about old stuff – in this case older cars. It seems that the machine gets a “Balance” as it ages. Replace one part with a new stronger one and then some of the other parts are not in balance and may soon fail. I am not sure if that is really true with cars – but suspect it true with this cab. If I shore up some areas then other areas will be the week link and fail. So, I will repair the loose areas but also reinforce other joints that are similar in construction and stress.
They say that the prep is much of the work. It takes a while but I secure wood and reinforcers – and start to accumulate tools about my little work-site. Better too much than too little – especially with the bulk pricing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/Parts.jpg)
Screws will be used not just to attach the metal braces but also reinforce the seems in the cab. Though the screws are self tapping the wood is very dry and hard. I don’t want to crack it so I will drill started holes for all screws. The Dremel really aids work as it can snake about in the cab and also I don’t need to keep changing from drills bits to screw driver bits on the drill.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/Dremel.jpg)
It gets really crowded in here! Sometimes the bending electric screw driver helps.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/GettingCrowded.jpg)
One complete brace. Notice that I not just secure the corners – but also with another screw the join of the wood to the piece under it. I have no idea how well that seam was made either. Construction of the cab is staples and nails and it seems not enough glue.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/OneCompleteBrace.jpg)
Right now I am on section C. Finally have two done. I will need a third on this side. Work is very slow and tedious – though I am improving some. You need to take the time to get it right the first time. The hard angle makes the two screws on one side look loose – but they are in as tight as I want to force them before I might strip the wood.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/AnotherView.jpg)
I decided to go nutso and add some wood bracing. It looks like Mr. Miter Box has to get dug out and returned to service.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/MrMiterBox.jpg)
This is one section of where the top of the cab is constructed now. I only added the wood bracing to where the back plate meets up with the top. I hope that will be enough. Lots of glue.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/TopBrace.jpg)
Opposite of the long side with the port I will add a wood brace. I cut it to the perfect length but the freagin thing won’t fit in! Just by a nudge! Curse you Mr. Nudge!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/ZiggyDude/Sunn%20215B%20Bracing/BraceTooLong.jpg)
Ugh - it may not seem this way - but sometimes the job is the least of the work. Shooting the pics, editing them, post online, write the stuff, correlate pics to writing, and then the posting process. This taes time - and accuracy. Back when I get more done!!!!!!!
Best,
- Ziggy -