Author Topic: question about speaker cab and head  (Read 3548 times)

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Offline tacklebox455

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question about speaker cab and head
« on: August 22, 2011, 07:17:47 pm »
I read in the current issue of premier guitar in the 10 tips for better sound or whatever it said useing say a head that is 4 ohms with a cab that is 8 ohms would be the same as using a attenuator,

i'm calling bullsh*t on this but i wanna see what folks like loudthud and issac have to say to this 
1975 Sunn model T
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Randall RT 503
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Offline MammothVolume

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Re: question about speaker cab and head
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 08:58:29 pm »
No, it's the same as running the hell out of your amp, and overheating it.

Always match the load with tube amps. If it's a solid state amp, you can run almost any impedance as long as it doesn't go below the minimum load. Beta Leads are 100W@4 ohms, running at 8 ohms, a beta lead is pushing about 65-70, 16... about 50. There isn't a huge difference in volume, between 50-100 watts, something like +3db or something. Double the wattage doesn't mean double the volume.

I really hope they didn't suggest mismatching your ohm loads in a published magazine.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 09:59:15 pm by MammothVolume »

Offline tacklebox455

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Re: question about speaker cab and head
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 09:56:30 pm »
this is whats written in the magazine i can only imagine how many people are gonna fry there amps because of this and as you said i have always been told and from know how match my heads with my cabs , i wonder if this was a misprint and was ment to go along the lines of pulling 2 tubes on say a 100watt head or at least i would hope so.



10 Tips For Great Gritty Tone
There are even more ways to get crazy, beautiful, off-the-wall tones than there are distortion, overdrive, and fuzz pedals on the market. After all, every knob tweak and playing technique alters the sound of these pedals immensely—to say nothing of the rest of the rig they’re plugged into. That said, these 10 approaches never fail to yield great results.

1. Increase your impedance. Using a speaker cabinet with a greater impedance than that of your amp (for example, a 4 Ω head with an 8 Ω cabinet) can yield the same effects as an attenuator.

2. Don’t forget that less can be more. Distortion acts as compression, so the more gain you use the more it will flatten the dynamics of your playing. It will also wash out your sound and sink you into the mix. You might think you sound awesome, but all the audience will hear is a muffled roar.

3. Don’t obsess too much over germanium. While germanium fuzzes have come a long way in terms of consistently sounding good, they don’t all sound exactly the same—even the same models from the same company. If you have a chance to try a couple, do so. If you don’t hold an audition, but simply buy one and it sounds good, be glad. Don’t obsess that there might be a better one out there.

4. Pair a germanium fuzz with an overdrive. If you want the sound of a germanium boost at unity gain, try running it in front of an overdrive pedal with the overdrive’s Drive control set low and its output set below your clean amp volume.

5. Cascading overdrives adds up to distortion. You might find that cascading overdrives—running more than one in a row—provides a more desirable sound than a distortion pedal. By sending the slightly overdriven signal of one pedal into a second pedal set for a moderate amount of grit, you can achieve more distortion while maintaining an openness that is sometimes lost with a single highly distorted pedal.

6. Make sure your distortion pedal has level-boost capabilities. You won’t want to use too much, but a little is essential to keep a high-gain sound from disappearing in the mix.

7. Simple is best for the blues. For an authentic old-blues sound, a small combo and—at most—a clean boost are sufficient. If you want a more modern blues tone, overdrive or certain fuzz boxes will keep essential blues dynamics more intact than a distortion pedal.

8. Order matters. Some fuzz units need to be first in your pedalboard’s chain in order to work properly with guitar volumes and wah-wahs. Further, every distortion effect will have a different character if it’s placed, say, before a wah than it will if it comes somewhere else in the chain.

9. Don’t forget your Tone knob. Rolling it off is often the most effective way to tame fuzz fizz and make it more adaptable to different songs and feels.

10. Summon a sitar. Selecting your bridge pickup and rolling down your Volume while using an octave fuzz pedal can create a cool sitar sound—who would’ve thought?
1975 Sunn model T
2007Crate Blue voodoo BV 120(mercury magnetics upgraded)
Randall RT 503
Jet City JCA 22H
Creepy fingers harakiri superfuzz
Creepy fingers doomidrive
Earthbound Audio supercollider
Malekko Plus Ultra 213

Offline MammothVolume

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Re: question about speaker cab and head
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2011, 10:10:30 pm »
Engh... These morons. In a pinch, you CAN mismatch, but It should never be an every day thing. That's dumb.  :-(

The impedance gets wonky pulling two tubes. Using a Marshall with a standard impedance selector, 4/8/16, pulling two tubes would make that selector 8/16/32, so they can't be referring to that.

It would be proper if they mentioned power starving the amp to get more breakup at lower volumes, but mismatching a lower to a higher impedance... wrong, 100%

At 2:1 ratio is how it should be... should be 8:4, y'know?

Regardless, always match, IMO.

Some amps HATE mismatches, Ampeg V2s/V4s are some really good examples of amps that will take a long nap if you mismatch for too long...

Offline tacklebox455

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Re: question about speaker cab and head
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2011, 10:15:38 pm »
i may be wrong and if i am someone please correct me but i have one of gereld webers books here beside me and he states that if you pull 2 tubes from a 16 ohm head and running it to a 16 ohm cab then take and do 1 of 2 things either switch head to 8 ohms or switch cab to 8 ohms to get proper impedance back so would that not make a marshall with the 4/8/16 a 2/4/8   ?
1975 Sunn model T
2007Crate Blue voodoo BV 120(mercury magnetics upgraded)
Randall RT 503
Jet City JCA 22H
Creepy fingers harakiri superfuzz
Creepy fingers doomidrive
Earthbound Audio supercollider
Malekko Plus Ultra 213

Offline MammothVolume

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Re: question about speaker cab and head
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2011, 10:20:37 pm »
4/8/16 becomes 8/16/32. So, if you have the head/cab matched at 16 ohms, and you pull two tubes, change the impedance selector on the amp to 8 ohms, which is actually 16 ohms due to you pulling two tubes.

Offline tacklebox455

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Re: question about speaker cab and head
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2011, 10:24:48 pm »
that would be correct brain fart to much over thinking
1975 Sunn model T
2007Crate Blue voodoo BV 120(mercury magnetics upgraded)
Randall RT 503
Jet City JCA 22H
Creepy fingers harakiri superfuzz
Creepy fingers doomidrive
Earthbound Audio supercollider
Malekko Plus Ultra 213

Offline jaywalker

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Re: question about speaker cab and head
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 08:01:35 am »

 these 10 approaches never fail to yield great results.

1. Increase your impedance. Using a speaker cabinet with a greater impedance than that of your amp (for example, a 4 Ω head with an 8 Ω cabinet) can yield the same effects as an attenuator.

2. Don’t forget that less can be more.

In theory this is true in the sense that with matched impedance output is maximized, mismatched will lower output somewhat therefore less "loudness"...isn't that what an attenuator is for? Come to think of it isn't that what the volume knob is for? Ok, I know that cranking the output tubes yields the "goodies" but really now are we gonna mismatch and run the beast hard and fast? Sounds like the potential to yield great results for...your amp tech. From my reading it appears that the potential for damage to your output transformer is greater when the cab impedance is higher than the amp (talking tube amps here) than when it's reversed and the amp is higher than the cab due to the greater potential for "flyback voltages". Don't ask me to explain what those are. Some trannys are built tough and will take mismatches without flinching, either one up or one down, others not so tough. A man's got to ask himself "Do I feel lucky taking a chance with one of the most expensive components in my amp?". +1 on item 2. Applies to all effects.   John

Offline tacklebox455

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Re: question about speaker cab and head
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 09:45:03 pm »
. A man's got to ask himself "Do I feel lucky taking a chance with one of the most expensive components in my amp?". +1 on item 2. Applies to all effects.   John
[/quote]


i can see the poster now dirty hairy with his pistol and so kickass tube heads behind him with this quote

hehe

i email them about this and the reply i got was

THEM
"It will not hurt your amp in any way as long as you follow what is noted in this article"

ME
my reply back " you willing to back that up with a signed and dated email with my full name attached to it?"

THEM
"We cannot do this as our legal terms will not allow it"

ME
"so you can publish it but you cant back it up..................yeah that sounds about right."

after that have'nt gotten another email from them lol

1975 Sunn model T
2007Crate Blue voodoo BV 120(mercury magnetics upgraded)
Randall RT 503
Jet City JCA 22H
Creepy fingers harakiri superfuzz
Creepy fingers doomidrive
Earthbound Audio supercollider
Malekko Plus Ultra 213