Author Topic: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...  (Read 8190 times)

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Offline beemrmax

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SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« on: March 18, 2007, 10:32:28 am »
Ok, I took the leap, registered, couldn’t take it anymore, needed to hear from the "experts"... ;-)

SUNN Bathing... My living room's half full of SUNN gear, some sitting quietly in the corner waiting to be turned on (SUNN Concert Bass head/Coliseum Slave/ 1x18 Cab like Entwistle used in his set up), and then this latest piece I just picked up that has me intrigued!

After wracking my brains out (didn't take much...) doing a little research with absolutely nothing to go on,  I did figure out that it's a SUNN 100S Cabinet, with a JBL E130-8 on the bottom, a JBL LE100S on the top, and a massive JBL crossover on the back panel. Cosmetically, it's not bad at all with minor tolex rips, none missing, and perfect grill cloth.

The thing was in need of TLC, all back screws (41 of 'em!) are slotted instead of Phillips and my cordless is at my fiancée’s house... The crossover wires (sticking out and mangled) to the input jack were run up through a tiny hole in the cab under the X-over by some idiot. I cut them back/stripped/tinned them, now looking quite proper (after by sheer chance finding a pic of one on the net last night). The X-over hold down screw holes were all stripped out, the jack cup was loose in the cab back panel (all fixed now). Ahh the pleasures of itching from fiberglass...!

I did play it this afternoon with a couple different basses, then started doing more research on the net. Now I'm wondering; IS IT A BASS OR GUITAR CAB???

The 100S head seems to be for guitar, so what gives?

I did play it at 1st with a rare and unusual West Grande R head (really RARE, Dave West who built these things from Grand Funk Railroad back in the 1972 told me that he only built about a dozen of these and was damned surprised I had one) that does run 2 KT88's, just as a coincidence, the massive transformers obviously aren't as "linear" as SUNN's head's for there was quite evident distortion, especially with an 80's Kramer set neck Forum I with ripping active electronics. Threw the Concert Bass head on there, much tamer, especially with a cool old 70's Univox "Mosrite" bass, the cab sounds really cool.

I've got the back off, and I'm looking at it as it's laying on the floor to work on it as I'm writing this, and I just noticed that the leads to the 15" JBL (which should be a D130?) are White to Black/Black to Red, looks like someone's wired it backwards? The polarity is right at the X-over, White to Red/Black to Black. Just say no to drugs, kids...

So, is it for guitar or for bass, and what is the exact designation of the cab (42"x24"x15')? Should the 15 be running reversed polarity (I doubt it)?

Couple more questions;

Wazzup with this monster 1x18 cab, it's got the most incredible cast frame Vega speaker I've ever seen!

The Coliseum Slave's on/off switch's been changed to an all black/non lighted one. Where can I get the right switch, or can you ?

Also, one of the casters on the 100s Cab is shot and has lost it's balls, not a good thing... I'd like to replace that one/or all with the same caster/s, or at least the same footprint, don't like to drill new holes.

My neighbor said "just go to the store and get any caster you want". I said "Yeah, right...Made in China?" I'd rather keep that stuff off of my gear please... Also, where do I find 40 some correct screws for the back and why the hell are all the original ones missing? Ohhh, if only you could talk...

Lastly, who want all this shite, including some old Marshall Amps & Cabs, some old Les Paul Customs, Strats, Fender Basses, 60's Slingerland/Ludwig drums & Zildjian cymbals?

Just kidding!

;-)

Offline EdBass

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2007, 09:27:11 pm »
Ok, I took the leap, registered, couldn’t take it anymore, needed to hear from the "experts"... ;-)

SUNN Bathing... My living room's half full of SUNN gear, some sitting quietly in the corner waiting to be turned on (SUNN Concert Bass head/Coliseum Slave/ 1x18 Cab like Entwistle used in his set up), and then this latest piece I just picked up that has me intrigued!

After wracking my brains out (didn't take much...) doing a little research with absolutely nothing to go on,  I did figure out that it's a SUNN 100S Cabinet, with a JBL E130-8 on the bottom, a JBL LE100S on the top, and a massive JBL crossover on the back panel. Cosmetically, it's not bad at all with minor tolex rips, none missing, and perfect grill cloth.

The thing was in need of TLC, all back screws (41 of 'em!) are slotted instead of Phillips and my cordless is at my fiancée’s house... The crossover wires (sticking out and mangled) to the input jack were run up through a tiny hole in the cab under the X-over by some idiot. I cut them back/stripped/tinned them, now looking quite proper (after by sheer chance finding a pic of one on the net last night). The X-over hold down screw holes were all stripped out, the jack cup was loose in the cab back panel (all fixed now). Ahh the pleasures of itching from fiberglass...!

I did play it this afternoon with a couple different basses, then started doing more research on the net. Now I'm wondering; IS IT A BASS OR GUITAR CAB???
It was designed for guitar, and it should be a D130F in the bottom.

The 100S head seems to be for guitar, so what gives?

Early Sunns were sold as an amp/cabinet combination only. The "100S" was actually the 100S amp with the 100S cab you are describing.

I did play it at 1st with a rare and unusual West Grande R head (really RARE, Dave West who built these things from Grand Funk Railroad back in the 1972 told me that he only built about a dozen of these and was damned surprised I had one) that does run 2 KT88's, just as a coincidence, the massive transformers obviously aren't as "linear" as SUNN's head's for there was quite evident distortion, especially with an 80's Kramer set neck Forum I with ripping active electronics. Threw the Concert Bass head on there, much tamer, especially with a cool old 70's Univox "Mosrite" bass, the cab sounds really cool.

I think GFR actually used the West "Phillmore", which is a 4xKT88 amp. One of my favorite stories is that Mel Schacher ran his output so hot that he had a roadie with an oven mitt behind his rig at live gigs changing Genelex output tubes as they flamed out during their set. I don't know if it's actually true, but a great story none the less! If you listen his tone (or more acuately controlled "roar") on the first GFR live album, it seems almost plausible.

I've got the back off, and I'm looking at it as it's laying on the floor to work on it as I'm writing this, and I just noticed that the leads to the 15" JBL (which should be a D130?) are White to Black/Black to Red, looks like someone's wired it backwards? The polarity is right at the X-over, White to Red/Black to Black. Just say no to drugs, kids...


So, is it for guitar or for bass, and what is the exact designation of the cab (42"x24"x15')? Should the 15 be running reversed polarity (I doubt it)?

Don't doubt it, JBL's are wired reverse to other drivers.

Couple more questions;

Wazzup with this monster 1x18 cab, it's got the most incredible cast frame Vega speaker I've ever seen!

Pretty cool, isn't it?

The Coliseum Slave's on/off switch's been changed to an all black/non lighted one. Where can I get the right switch, or can you ?

Good luck with that.



Also, one of the casters on the 100s Cab is shot and has lost it's balls, not a good thing... I'd like to replace that one/or all with the same caster/s, or at least the same footprint, don't like to drill new holes.

My neighbor said "just go to the store and get any caster you want". I said "Yeah, right...Made in China?" I'd rather keep that stuff off of my gear please... Also, where do I find 40 some correct screws for the back and why the hell are all the original ones missing? Ohhh, if only you could talk...

What's the matter with China? Lot's of good stuff comes from China. Soon everything will come from China. You should be more flexible!

Lastly, who want all this shite, including some old Marshall Amps & Cabs, some old Les Paul Customs, Strats, Fender Basses, 60's Slingerland/Ludwig drums & Zildjian cymbals?

Just kidding!

;-)


Try Goodwill. Or Vietnam Veterans, I think they will pick up...

Also just kidding.

Offline beemrmax

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 12:02:41 am »
LOL, thx!!!

I'll try the Salvation army...


;-)

Offline beemrmax

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 01:16:17 am »
Ok, all kidding aside, Thx for the great answers Ed!!!


Do you really think I should be reinstalling the wires to the 15 pos to neg? Once I button this thing up, I don't want to take the back off again for a long time, if ever...

What is the E130-8? A later speaker, for bass I take it?


Someone's obviously switched it out, and the screws weren't very tight, one came loose and the insert/nut (nutsert) fell out into the grille cloth area, I've pulled the speaker and retrieved it. I’ll glue it back in sometime tomorrow, along with my many other projects…


The screws were all miscellaneous, a couple were slotted countersunk 1/4-20 X 1 1/2", one a slotted oval head with a 1/4-20 nut against the head as a spacer... and one a 1/4-20 x 1 1/4" bolt with an unusual 3/8" head/wrench size (off of a Ford perhaps?) instead of 7/16".


Which of these are the correct driver fastener, or none, and if so what are the correct fasteners? I see that the compression driver IS held in by bolts to the baffle board, although they have the more common 7/16" wrench size.

I've already bought both the bolts and slotted countersunk screws, if bolts are indeed used (which would make sense to me because of the nonexistent clearance for a screwdriver on the upper two), do they use washers or some type of lockwasher?

I also bought the 41 replacement screws and nickel plated steel cup washers for the back panel. Later will come the regluing of the minor tolex rips and the replacing of the casters. Poor thing needed some TLC, maybe that's why I brought it home and also because I have a hard time resisting cool old SUNN gear...

The 1x18 Cab & Concert Bass head I found at a yard sale on the way to get tubes for my Marshall one day. It was kinda funny, cause I was going to go downtown to this one store to get a deal on some 12AX7's, but the regular guy (my buddy Rick) was gone, a Saturday I think it was. The guy I got on the phone was being a total jerk and quoting me crazy prices for the tubes, so I went to this other store across town instead and that's how I found the SUNN. They say the Lord works in mysterious ways... ;-) There was an OLD fuzzbox that came with the amp, it had all belonged to the same person at one time, a really rare & unusual 60’s "Conrad Fuzz Box" which I sold on feeBay billed as a prehistoric "Weapon of Mass Distortion"! The fuzz box sold for $50 more (as a BIN) than I paid for the amp/cab...

Later, in a feeble attempt to clean house some... I put the head & Cabinet on the Bay, and some joker in Germany popped the BIN for like $600 without even asking about the shipping!!! I gotta tell you that I got a ton o' emails asking to buy the head or the cab separately! Anyway... a rough estimate of the shipping to Dusseldorf was only a paltry $1500 and I let him bow out on amicable terms because he effectively ended the auction and I sure as hell didn’t wanna go through the trouble to pack that monster 1x18 cabinet anyway!!! I even left him + feedback that read "Thx to you, I got to keep my SUNN amp!!!" and I never relisted it. Someone somewhere was obviously trying to tell me something ;-)

The Coliseum Slave I found later. Tell you what, it made that Concert Bass head sound even better (and I really like the LED’s ;-), although the 1x18 cab isn't really my cup of tea, a bit on the flabby side and the grille cloth rattles... It's got that old "whateverlok" that stuff was called, some industrial version of Velcro that no longer holds very well holding the grille on. One of these days, I'm going to remove it and install some 2" industrial Velcro and fix that!

Here's a couple pics of the cab with Mr. West sitting on it (That head is a monster, look at the transformers, it weighs a ton!) and now in surgery. Can't wait to get it back together!










<center> <h1>Peace!




« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 11:30:40 am by beemrmax »

Offline Isaac

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 10:51:41 am »
Don't doubt it, JBL's are wired reverse to other drivers.
Early ones are. Later ones are not.

Here's the information, straight from JBL:
http://www.jblpro.com/tech-library/JBL_TechNoteN1V12C_v5.pdf
Isaac

Offline beemrmax

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 11:33:41 am »
Wow, Great info!


Thx Isaac!!!

Offline spellcaster

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 04:41:20 pm »
Recently bought a 200s cab that needed casters. Same thing, didnt want to make any new holes. Ordered a set of "Ernie Ball Amp Casters" and they fit like the originals. Slightly narrower wheel but an excellent replacement.... sorry made in Taiwan :-D

Offline JoeArthur

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 05:39:33 pm »
sorry made in Taiwan :-D

Better than not being made at all!!  :-D :-D

Offline beemrmax

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2007, 05:53:03 pm »
Thx for the tip, and at least it's not China...

;-)

Offline EdBass

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2007, 06:00:01 pm »
Don't doubt it, JBL's are wired reverse to other drivers.
Early ones are. Later ones are not.

Here's the information, straight from JBL:
http://www.jblpro.com/tech-library/JBL_TechNoteN1V12C_v5.pdf

I think that the MI drivers, D through E series we are discussing in this thread are all red negative though.
Is that correct according to the PDF link?
If not, I've been wiring E series drivers out of phase for a long time!

"Negative systems: A system or transducer is
said to be negative if a positive-going voltage
applied to its red (non-black) terminal causes a
negative pressure at the output of the device
."

"The following models are negative:
E110-8 E120-8, 16
E130-8 E140-8
E155-4, 8
"

Offline beemrmax

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2007, 06:21:47 pm »
Don't be negative Ed, and are you positive that's right?

;-)

Tell me about the bolts! Or screws, whatever they maybe be...

Thx!

Keith

Offline Isaac

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007, 06:39:47 pm »
The E series are indeed red negative. D and K series are not listed. I assume they are red negative as well. The MI drivers are red positive.

I think you're okay.
Isaac

Offline EdBass

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2007, 06:55:14 pm »
The E series are indeed red negative. D and K series are not listed. I assume they are red negative as well. The MI drivers are red positive.

I think you're okay.

Sorry for the confusion, I meant MI for "musical instrument" drivers, not M series (ie; M151, etc.) drivers.

And I think you're pretty cool too, Isaac!

Offline JoeArthur

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Re: SUNN Bathing... 100S Cab questions? Other stuff...
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2007, 07:31:10 pm »
I think you're okay.

And I think you're pretty cool too, Isaac!

Both of you 'scuse me while I go fro-up!!  :-D  :-D

You know what?  I think we need a better set of smilies to select from.