The sunn Forum
Other Musical Equipment => Conrad Amps => Topic started by: mratcliffe on October 15, 2007, 02:05:55 pm
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I know this is a Sunn Board and I have many posts. Especialy about the Sonaro's.
(I have a 1970 Sonaro with matching 1X15 and it's awsome with my P-Bass, KT88 instead of 6550).
The last time I started a Thread about Conrad's new Amps I got quite a stir. Please, I would like to avoid all of that.
However, I am now a very, very proud owner of Conrad's Blues Jammer. If you want to know about these amps first hand, I would be more than happy to share my experience with you. Please email me directly at mark.ratcliffe@emersonprocess.com.
I am not in it for advertisemet or hype. But after my share of Sunns, Marshalls, Fenders and Modeling Units, I think I have found the tone I was looking for as far as my choice of Guitar amps
We have all got to give credit where true credit it due!
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I'm sure I'll hear about it...
But am I the only one that thinks it is somewhat ironic (nicest word I could think of at the moment) that the current claim to fame for Conrad is building $2K clone amps of one of his competitors dating to roughly a decade before he started Sunn?
Maybe it's appropriate - after all Fender hasn't been able to build a successful Sunn amp.
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I'm sure you're right..... :-D
The Blues Jammer than Conrad is making isn't really very much of a clone......it shares an output section to a certain extent with a Supro Thunderbolt but everything else in the amp is different and is his own design. The construction methods in the amp are far superior to what Supro did back int he day too. He spent a lot of time and effort coming up with something that would satisfy the locals at the blues jam we both go to, and it seems others are liking what he has come up with now too. Its a unique amp that is well suited to small clubs and puts him in the same group as Victoria, Dr. Z, etc.
Everyone else makes clones of older amps these days so I don't see why its a problem if Conrad joins in to the game. Its better than sitting around at home and watching tv all day long like my grandpa used to do before he passed!
Greg
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Thank you Greg - you have perfect timing!!
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The circuit in the Blues Jammer is NOT the Supro circuit and therefore is NOT a clone of the Supro. Since Joe claimed it is a clone, maybe he could tell us what clone it is.
Conrad Sundholm
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Conrad, if requested could you custom make a Model T "clone" if an order was put in?
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Hi Iron Mt.,
I don't feel this forum is the proper place to discus business so I would suggest you contact me via email.
Conrad Sundholm
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My bad. Consider it done sir........
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Joe, I am curious as to what type of guitar amp and tone you prefer. That would help me understand some of your comments.
Over the years I have tried Bassmans (re-issues only), Blackface Vibrolux, Black Face reverb deluxe, band master, Music Man, Sunns, modeling units and a few Marshalls.
I'm not trying to brag, it was just that I could never find what I was looking for my guitars (Tele and Les Paul). The closest is my 93 Blues-Deville. I took a gamble and, yea paid the price. But at least I don't have to look anymore. That's what I wanted to share.
From now on I'll stick to subjects of Sunn amplifiers only when posting to this particular board.
Mark
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From now on I'll stick to subjects of Sunn amplifiers only when posting to this particular board.
Perhaps this board could benefit from an "others" section to discuss things other than Sunn, but as far as I know, Joe seems to be the only one who has had issues with discussing things other than Sunn here? Tboy hasn't said anything one way or the other about it, and since he runs the site, he should have the final say in my opinion.
Keep posting what you like to post unless Tboy brings up something to contradict it.
Greg
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Let's face it, tube audio isn't exactly cutting edge technology. There probably hasn't been anything truly groundbreaking circuit wise in any of our lifetimes. I believe Jim Marshall originally copied Leo Fenders designs, and before that Leo originally got most of his circuits from pre-war Westinghouse schematics.
Maybe I'm just nostalgic, but I figure anything Mr. Sundholm personally builds is a classic. Just like anything Jim Marshall, or Leo Fender personally built/would build is a classic. These before mentioned guys, and of course others; Dave Reeves, Dick Denney, Adolph Rickenbacker, and numerous others, are the original architects of musical instrument amplification as we now know it.
All building variations of very basic amp circuits, but each adding individual flavor to get the "ultimate tone" (or possibly to cut production costs, etc.), which by its very nature is as personal as someone’s taste in food, or the opposite sex, or the same sex, or whatever.
It's all about the mojo as far as I can tell.
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Well said Ed!
There are some things that have greatly improved tube technology in our lifetimes but they would probably mainly be due to adding solid state things in to an otherwise tube circuit to improve one function or another. Look to Kevin O' Connor's power scaling in some of those Reeves amps and others for an example.
I don't want to leave the impression that Mr. Sundholm is building clones because he most certainly is not. Some of the design elements in some of his amps are similar to others that have gone before, but taken as a whole, his amps are their own animal, and he builds many models besides the Blues Jammer which are completely different from each other and have different target customers intended for them as a result. He's really a great guy with a passion for tubes and good sound just like the rest of us, and happens to have the history of Sunn to fall back on, and the free time to devote to building something that makes himself and his customers happy. Whats wrong with that?
Greg
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This is amazing.
Conrad claims he ain't building clones and wants me to prove how his clones is clones.
Gred claims that Conrad clones are better than other clones. And in the previous thread claims that he is the primary guiding force behind this amp that Conrad would not have been able to build without his help.
Conrad then claims that this isn't the place for marketing, but yet there is continued marketing.
Let me put it this way.
Conrad: your Sunn amps were necessary at the time they were introduced because they didn't have the distortions of other amp manufacturers at the time - answer True or False?
Conrad: Did you need Greg's help in any way, shape or form in designing these fender clones? True or False?
Some of us do know what is going on here.
So the last true or false question is - Do you want us to ignore it and pretend that your goal is in our best interest?
True or false?
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Let's face it, tube audio isn't exactly cutting edge technology. There probably hasn't been anything truly groundbreaking circuit wise in any of our lifetimes. I believe Jim Marshall originally copied Leo Fenders designs, and before that Leo originally got most of his circuits from pre-war Westinghouse schematics.
Maybe I'm just nostalgic, but I figure anything Mr. Sundholm personally builds is a classic. Just like anything Jim Marshall, or Leo Fender personally built/would build is a classic. These before mentioned guys, and of course others; Dave Reeves, Dick Denney, Adolph Rickenbacker, and numerous others, are the original architects of musical instrument amplification as we now know it.
All building variations of very basic amp circuits, but each adding individual flavor to get the "ultimate tone" (or possibly to cut production costs, etc.), which by its very nature is as personal as someone’s taste in food, or the opposite sex, or the same sex, or whatever.
It's all about the mojo as far as I can tell.
p.s. Thank you Ed.
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Gred claims that Conrad clones are better than other clones. And in the previous thread claims that he is the primary guiding force behind this amp that Conrad would not have been able to build without his help.
Where did I say that I was the primary guiding force behind this amp and that Conrad wouldn't have been able to build it without my help? I played a small part in the genesis of the amp but thats about it. I get to see several of these amps in use at a weekly jam by some really good players and there has been nothing but praise so far from them. Conrad spent a lot of time and effort to make this amp and other amps of his what they are and it isn't fair of you to demean that effort and attack him or his products when you really know nothing about them. It also isn't fair of you to attack others who post about them such as the person who started this post. He has more experience with this amp than you do and is a more reliable authority on it than you are since he has one. He was also just trying to share his impressions of the amp from what I could gather....what is wrong with that? I also didn't say that Conrad's clones are better than other clones. I said that if Conrad was making clones, what is wrong with that, but that he isn't making clones. This Blues Jammer amp has some similarities to another amp I mentioned earlier in one area of the amp and the rest came out of Conrad's head. Btw, how are these amps Fender clones?
I don't really understand what your issue is Joe. I think maybe some others here may wonder also? You appear to have an ax to grind for some reason. You'll notice that Conrad hasn't put up one of the typical spam messages hawking his products here so it isn't fair to accuse him of anything of the sort. Someone asked a question about Conrad's amps several months ago. I answered about them because I had some knowledge. You attacked me for it and questioned my motivations. I referred people to Conrad directly because he is the best source and it seemed it would head off more attacks from you. The same person who initially asked the questions about Conrad's amp bought one and posted that he likes it, and you go into attack mode again. I don't get it but it isn't very nice of you.....
I'm going to see if Tboy with start a section up for other subjects besides Sunn so posts like this can go there and not interfere with the Sunn subjects. It may head off some future problems. I suggest that anyone who wants to comment on Conrad's current products should wait until we have that other section, or email Conrad directly as any such comment here seems to set off the attacks and it isn't fair for anyone to have to deal with it.
Greg
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Come on kids, let's all play nice...
I think I understand what Joe means, and for what my opinion is worth, I agree that this is a Sunn website and other gear discussion should be occasional at best.
On the other hand, I think in reference to the Sunn era, discussion of comparable period equipment is unavoidable.
And that being said, I can't think of a more appropriate forum for information about Conrad SUN(N)dholm's latest creations.
I would personally like to hear more about his C4 bass pre-amp.
Also, as far as clones go...who cares? As I alluded to in my last post, there really isn't anything that hasn't been done with tube amps, as far as I'm concerned the "magic" is in the execution.
And one more thing, how come everybody but me seems to have this in depth technical knowledge about the amps Mr. Sundholm is building?
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Let's face it, "Sunn" is a dead brand. It's owned by a company who hasn't put any money into it, and even the recent offerings were more like re-branded Fender items. We're like fans of the Brooklyn Dodgers in this forum. Some of us can choose to never watch baseball again because the dodgers are gone and talk about the good 'ol days exclusively, or some of us can celebrate what the Dodgers became (Like Conrad's awesome amps, IMO). Let's not get so angry or hostile about it.
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Ok Joe, That was enough for me. I'm tired of hearing your sarcasm and mean tones. Everybody has their opinions.
I'm outa here..............
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Let's face it, "Sunn" is a dead brand. It's owned by a company who hasn't put any money into it, and even the recent offerings were more like re-branded Fender items. We're like fans of the Brooklyn Dodgers in this forum. Some of us can choose to never watch baseball again because the dodgers are gone and talk about the good 'ol days exclusively, or some of us can celebrate what the Dodgers became (Like Conrad's awesome amps, IMO). Let's not get so angry or hostile about it.
Wait, the Brooklyn Dodgers aren't a team anymore?!
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All of us on this forum love Sunn amps.
All of us acknowledge that Conrad started Sunn amps. He owned it for a while, then he sold it - I'll let him tell you about his profits from the sale.
Some of us love the Sunn amps produced long after Conrad was gone.
What if I were to start a topic about a Fender amp designer whose amps sound as good or better than the classic Sunn amps? Would you be interested?
Dust off your Lita Ford and play it - is she using Sunn amps? No, and it's definitely not Fender that she is using, nor is it Marshall. Some of you may know the maker and know that he is associated with Fender and Rickenbacker as well as his own brand of amps.
I don't mention it because it isn't Sunn.
But Conrad started Sunn you cry - and I answer "Yes he did". But Fender, the current owner, has owned Sunn name longer than Conrad did.
So between Conrad and Fender... Which is really more "Sunn"?
If Conrad wants to produce Fender Tweed clones these days, then I say more power to him. But they are not Sunn, and yes, it bothers me to see them marketed on this site using Conrad's association with Sunn to do so.
So you tell me - while Greg is off seeking permission from tboy...
Is it ok to talk about non-Sunn amps made by Conrad? If so then it should be equally appropriate to talk about amps made by ex-Fender and ex-Rickenbacker employees that emphasize the Sunn sound over the Fender clone sound of an ex-Sunn owner.
Any objection?
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Pssst... Conrad....
How did you solve front mounting the speakers for the Orion series - you remember, the solid state amp that was to compete against Acoustic? Acoustic never had any problems with power amps inside speaker cabs blowing/burning up nor any of speaker cones hitting the grille cloth at "maximum excursion" due to front mounted speakers.
A personal question: There is a quote of yours, related to the Orion series - that Acoustics were loud but didn't have the bass response. Have you ever tried a 360?
I love my Orion preamp head... but I have to ask, were there any models of the Aquarius released for general sale? The three control tremolo intrigues me.
Did you ever improve upon the Orion Buzz foot-switching with the Aquarius? Running signal wires to a permanently connected remote footswitch is rather barbaric even considering 1968 capabilities.
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I think it's really cool that Conrad participates in this site. But let's try to confine the discussion here to Sunn amps. Sooner or later he'll probably have a discussion forum on his site. Until then, let's just politely refer people to him directly or to his MySpace page.
The only thing I think his amps have in common with anything is the tweed era chassis. If I was making combo amps, I'd probably use them too. They are a great time saver not having to mess with mechanical details and you can't beat the price when quantities are small. Some day I hope to open up one of Conrad's amps to see what's inside.
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I think a lot of people here respect Conrad because of what he did with Sunn when he owned it and the products that he created and the sounds that they make. Sure they’re largely Dynaco derived, but that’s ok. He was in the right place at the right time and had some great ideas and here we are. The speaker cabinets were the important and influential component to the sound anyway in my mind, and that was all Conrad there. They’re best suited for bass playing instead of guitar, but that’s just me. The later Sunn products after Conrad sold the company are equally valid too. Sunn made a lot of good products over the years…..basically until Fender got a hold of them anyway. I’ve got a Sunn mixer from the mid 70’s that is great, and Conrad didn’t have anything to do with that. I think it’s pretty cool that someone like Conrad who started a company years ago chooses to spend some of his time talking to people who are interested in those products from years ago. You don’t get that personal interaction with most companies or former company owners.
Personally I’m not at all bothered if topics stray from Sunn to other things. It happens on just about every forum on the net. Sometimes they have separate sections devoted to those type of things and other times not. I think having a separate section here would be beneficial to the community, but we’ll have to wait to see what Tboy says. I’m also not bothered if people talk about his current products because Conrad was a member to this forum years ago before he was even doing his current line of amps, and he shouldn’t have to suddenly stop posting because he now makes a product that doesn’t have anything to do with Sunn. As I said before….you’ll notice that Conrad hasn’t come on here and made a big post and talked about his amps as if he is trying to get everyone to buy them. He’s answered questions about them, and referred people to email or his website when they want to know more. I’ve answered questions from one poster when he had them about the amps because I had something to contribute. You’ve attacked him and I because you are apparently opposed to this site having any subjects not having to do with Sunn on them I guess. Well where does it say that this site will only have posts related to Sunn amps? If it is a problem, then why hasn’t someone come along who is responsible for this site such as tboy and said no-no boys? I think it’s only you that have a problem with other subjects here Joe, and I say get over it. Bring up these other subjects you were talking about too….I’m sure lots of people here would be interested. We are after all mostly musicians and I’ve never met a musician who wasn’t curious about gear of all types.
I still don’t get the reference to tweed fender clones or clones of anything really aside from the look and chassis construction design? Just like any other designer, you take what is known, and you build on it, and add your own twist or tweak, and this is what Conrad has done. This Blues Jammer amp is completely different than the Rocket Vessel amp that he also makes and neither one is a tweed fender clone. I don’t think when people who aren’t associated with Conrad at all ask a question about his products and people answer those questions that you can consider it marketing either. If Conrad come on here and made a blatant sales pitch post and glorified his products and told everyone to go check them out….well I’d have a problem with that and would consider that marketing.
It is probably best if we can get some other section to talk about things like this so we can keep this area strictly to Sunn and head off arguments like we’ve had in the past. Then we can all be happy and move along. You can say that there are other sites devoted to other things such as the regular Ampage area, or AX84, but not all of our community is there. I’m going to wait to see what Tboy says/does about it, but in the meantime, it doesn’t bother me at all to have other subjects on here. Bring up whatever subjects you like Joe.
Greg
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So between Conrad and Fender... Which is really more "Sunn"?
Conrad for sure.
I've worked for SUNN on two levels; during the late 60's at the factory in Tualatin with Dick McLeod and Jerry Duffy in the engineering section as a part time draftsman, then in the early 70's when my band was touring and was beta-testing their then new Concert and Coliseum series prototype amps and cabs. I wound up with some pretty cool gear too, including a beat up amp head that went on tour with Jimi Hendrix and a 2x15 Orion bottom that The Who used when they recorded their "Magic Bus" LP. If Conrad hadn't helped create SUNN, none of this would have happened.
Have you ever met Conrad? Or Leo Fender? Or Jim Marshall? Well I have, and they are (or were) all great men in my book, and they all had a huge influence on how popular music was (and still is) created.
And who are you? What company did you start and what lives (both famous and not so famous) did you touch, guide, or help?
After reading your posts, you come off like an insecure dickweed. Shame on you.
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Ah Yes, and with that said, I can now comment freely on his little blues jammer.
First thing is the style, I loved the look and the workmanship that went into the cabinet. The top controls and text were facing the the front of the amp, I don't have to crook my head to see what I'm doing. It's the little things that add up. Very easy to use, turn it on and go! No pre-amp outs, no footswitches to mess with. No channel switching patches. Just an amp to make you concentrate on your playing and your tone. Tone is every thing, not gimmiks that mask.
Now for the sound. I am still experimenting but I have all the tone (treble, mid and bass) controls on 6, maybe a touch more bass. The volume and master volume on 7 or 8. I can get any note to sustain with a wonderful, warm sense of distortion. With a little bit of vibrato from ones finger action it will go on forever. Sweet tone all the way. The sound is huge and commanding and very responsive comming out of one 12 emminence speaker. When you want you can turn the volume down on the guitar (I used a Les Paul Custom) and you get the warmest tone ever. Almost creamy. Perfect for a Jazz flavor if you like.
I then switched to my 71 tele and a little rockabilly, fun stuff. It responds to your playing like no other amp I had without going overboard.
Very, very clear! I was amazed! I now think my blues deville sounds muddy in comparison.
The reverb is set on 1 and has a wonderful room effect, I'm not into the big echo sounds. I use the 4 ohm speaker jack as opposed to the 8 ohm one based on Conrads suggestion. I like the loseness of this a little more. Over all a perfect 10.
The only thing I think I will do is have him build me a matching 1X12 cabinet if he's willing. Thanks Conrad for a great amp!
Mark
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The prototype that Suburban Slim purchased and uses at the jam has a Weber Blue Dog in it if I recall correctly, and I like that combination the best so far out of the others that I've heard. Slim runs the bass around 7, the mids around 5 and the treble around 4, and he's been using an Epiphone LP lately. I like other guitars better than that one as the pickups are a little bit harsh, but the amp really flatters every guitar I've heard or played through it, including my Rickenbackers! The master is around 6 and the volume is around 4 at that jam.
I'm sure Conrad will build you anything you like if you decide to get a speaker cabinet to match.
Greg
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Thank you Mark, for your kind words and appreciation of your new Blues Jammer Amp.
Conrad Sundholm