The sunn Forum

Sunn Musical Equipment => DIY => Topic started by: Jeff Troy on April 23, 2010, 04:23:12 pm

Title: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on April 23, 2010, 04:23:12 pm: Hi, Guys,

Just finished rejuvenating the 415M I bought on eBay ($95). All that's left is to install the speakers, as soon as I decide which ones to use.

(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/11Restored415MCabinet.jpg)

Regards,
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: loudthud on April 23, 2010, 05:20:08 pm: How much did you have replace/redo? Tolex, grill cloth, corners, feet, handle, wheels ?
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: CLD on April 23, 2010, 09:38:39 pm: Looks great! ('Way better than mine ever did.)
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on April 24, 2010, 10:03:47 am: Cab was pretty decent, mostly scratches and nothing too deep. One or two tears were in the Tolex, but a dab of medium CA got the frays down.

Corners are new from Conrad, and I polished them with white compound on a dual buffer. Large rubber feet are also new from Conrad.

I always replace all my fasteners (screws, washers, nuts) with stainless steel parts, also polished to a chrome-like gloss on my buffer.

Handles are original, and I polished the caps after treating them with Naval Jelly to remove most of the surface pitting. The previous owner had already replaced the casters with common 2-inch parts. I just cleaned and polished them.

The grille was dirty, but otherwise in great shape. It didn't match the material I got from Conrad and I want all my pieces uniform, so I installed new cloth. If anyone out there is that much of a purist, I have the original grilles for the 415M, 215 cab and two accessory horns available. The 200S grille is here too, but it had been painted black. I got the paint off, but the cloth underneath the paint is dull and lifeless -- not very good as an original replacement.

Here is my Tolex cleanup procedure on a pretty rough Coliseum Slave case.

1. Remove the chassis, and strip the case of any hardware and fasteners.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/02ColiseumCaseTight.jpg)

2. Remove any paint, nail polish or other markings with lacquer thinner and a toothbrush.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/04RemovePolish.jpg)

3. Alpha-cyanoactrylate (CA) adhesive and accelerator are ideal for nailing down any frayed cloth.
Good CA is like Crazy Glue that actually works.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/06GlueTears.jpg)

4. Orange One is a commercial cleaner. Wet the surface with Orange One. Fantastik or similar cleaners are also okay in a pinch.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/07OrangeOne.jpg)

5. Scrub deeply in all directions. Work the cleaner into the crevices.
Rinse off the cleaner with plain water, and dry with a lint-free towel.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/08ScrubDeep.jpg)

5. Coat the entire Tolex surface with Kiwi Liquid Shoe Polish. Use a very wet coating, and rub the polish in with a soft cloth.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/09KiwiBlackShoePolish.jpg)

6. When the polish is dry, use Meguire's Protectant to seal and gloss the surface.
Use the soft cloth again to smooth and spread the sealant before it dries. My advice is to NEVER use Armor-all (sp?) on anything you value.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/10MeguiresProtectant.jpg)

7. This is my rejuvenated Concert Controller 1. The Tolex was restored using the described method.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/SunnConcertController1.jpg)

8. My 1974/5 Fender Twin Reverb received the same treatment, but the covering is new Sunn Tolex.
The Armstrong 6-string is made from genuine vintage-60's Armstrong parts. An original guitar body was unavailable, so I used a bass body.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/ReconditionedTwinArmstrong6-Stringa.jpg)
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: CLD on April 25, 2010, 09:02:45 am: Looks great, Jeff. Where did you find the Orange One? I can barely find the product and can't find any vendors for it on the internet. Thanks.
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on May 01, 2010, 11:11:19 am: Hi CLD,

Sorry to take so long getting back. My source is personal, so I had to clear giving out his private line before I posted anything.

Cost is very reasonable at $4.55 per quart or $54.10 per case of 12, plus shipping from Ft. Wayne, Indiana 46815.

Contact Mark Erpelding at 260-410-1053 or e-mail to merpelding@janitorssupplyco.com.

He's a white hat.

Warmest...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: CLD on May 01, 2010, 08:20:24 pm: Thanks! I'll contact him Monday. :-)
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: chev on May 28, 2010, 09:08:37 am: nice job, very impressive!
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on May 29, 2010, 10:08:23 am: Thanks, Chev,

Still adding to the Sunn pile, and having each chassis teched while I do the cosmetics.

So far the inventory includes:

200S head
415M cabinet
115S cabinet (new baffle to eliminate horn)
Concert Keyboard head
Sorado 215 cabinet
Concert Controller 1
SPL 2112 Generation 2 stereo powered mixer
XP2116 powered mixer
Coliseum Slave (silver)
Coliseum Slave (silver)
Concert Slave (silver)
Concert Slave (red)
412SR column
412SR column
Concert Horn Accessory
Concert Horn Accessory
Model 1205 cabinet
Model 1205 cabinet
Model 6m cabinet
Model 6m cabinet
Working on another pair of 412SR columns and matching Concert Horn Accessory units - still up in the air.

I love my old Fender JBL Twin Reverb, so I'm keeping that one, as well as my brother's not-so-old Marshall VS100R combo amp (1x12) and 410A cabinet. Both amps have personal history. Came into a pretty slick set of Alesis DX5 electric drums, which should do well in the basement for practicing in a tight area. Also bought a few new SM-58 mics, solid-base floor stands and 6-inch goosenecks. The gooseneck is a great way of eliminating those ridiculous boom arrangements on a tight stage - gets the mic right in your face, but a lot cleaner and nothing to adjust or come undone.

Working on cleaning out the basement room next to my model workshop. Small, but should make a decent practice room. The Alesis drum kit will help keep thing clean.

I'll post more images when things are moving along more quickly. Having fun every day.

Found a pretty hot guitar player nearby, and did a couple of open mic nights. Not exactly giggin', but I got to sing and play in front of an audience again after almost 20 years. Felt good singing Zevon, Cream, Dylan and few others after so long.

Warmest...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: chev on June 07, 2010, 08:46:04 am: Cool! you're building a Sunn museum there...haha!

I which to buy my 1st house, it will need a basement with soundproofing and everything...live for music!

I have pretty much everything for mobile recording! I use Shure Beta 98/Beta 91(kick) for drums, don't need any stands! That's a miracle on a tight stage or a small practice place. I will set them up today in my practice place to start recording every jams...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Where's Uranus? on June 17, 2010, 09:00:38 am: Hey do you have any pictures of the 415 without the grille on?

I'm trying to construct my own, I'm tired of hauling 2 2x15's with me everywhere, and I have a couple of spare Sunn bass transducers, though one needs a dustcap. The wife is OK with me adding more speakers to a current cab, but not with me buying any more, sigh.

Mainly I'm trying to figure two things.

1. Does the v baffle connect to the back of the cab or is there a gap between the two sides.
2. How is the bottom port constructed.

Shame there's not a catalog in the Sunn Museum that covers the 415, those line drawings are kind of handy.
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: CLD on June 17, 2010, 11:08:03 am: Here's a photo of the front, at least.
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on June 17, 2010, 08:18:53 pm: Hi, Lousy Bassist,

I'll get more pics of the cabinet for you.

Another member asked me to measure out the cabinet. When I do it, I'll post an image here with dimensions. Maybe that will help you.

The V-baffles do hit each other, but not at the very back of the cabinet. The juncture is roughly 1-2 inches ahead of the back, and there is a vertical piece of strip wood between the back and the V intersection. This strip has slots for the wire harness to pass from right to left and top bottom.

I still have one speaker out of the cab, so I can take some shots of the interior for you.

Should be a day or two, depending upon how much lagging I'm into or how many new Sunn grilles I feel like mounting. Might even work on an airplane.

Warmest...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Where's Uranus? on June 18, 2010, 07:57:46 am: CLD, thanks very much, that at least clears up the port question looks like slots cut in the baffles, with a cross piece mounted above them to act as a horn mouth.

Jeff, that is very useful, sounds like it's almost like a frame that is slotted into the cabinet. I always wondered how they ran the wiring from one side to the other in my 612S, but never thought to measure it when I had it. I'll look forward to seeing your annotated photos.

If anyone is in Florida I noticed one for sale.
http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/msg/1798136507.html (http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/msg/1798136507.html)
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on June 18, 2010, 07:20:16 pm: Hi Guys,

Very productive day. I figured out my materials list for my four homebrew Sunn floor monitors (one 12" and one tweeter in each), cleaned and dressed my two 412SR cabinets, prepared the Model 6 cabinets for new corners and accessories, organized all the hardware and fasteners for polishing, and managed to get the photos and take the measurements LB and DM need for their 415M cabinet projects.

I'm tied up all evening and all day tomorrow, but will try to post images and dimension tomorrow evening, Sunday at the latest.

I was able to measure almost everything accurately, although there are a few spots where there is no practical access, so a builder will need to cut and fit. Naturally, I'd STRONGLY suggest cutting and fitting each part as construction progresses. I'm not drawing factory blueprints or CAD files, I'm older than I should be, and my sh*t could be slightly off.

More tomorrow.

Warmest...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: D(o)))(((o)M on June 19, 2010, 05:39:59 pm: thanks man keep me posted
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on June 20, 2010, 09:43:50 am: Hi, DM,

On my way to a car show with my plastic racer and we're having a cookout afterward.

I can do the drawings and upload images this evening, probably sometime after 10PM Eastern by the time it posts.

Sorry for the delay, but fun is always first.

Warmest...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on June 22, 2010, 11:34:10 am: Hi, DM and LB,

Long day Sunday and a funeral yesterday. Had the shots, but no time to draw.

Just finished the drawings, approximately 1/4-inch to the inch in not-so-exact scale.

The side wall and baffle construction drawing on the second page is actual size.

I could not get access to measure the depth of the vertical gussets behind the baffles, but please see that they are V-grooved to receive the baffles.

The left baffle is 17.75 inches wide and the right baffle is 17 inches. The rear edge of the right baffle is glued against the face of the left baffle at the rear.

Also note that there are 0.75-inch triangular doubler gussets on the cabinet floor and ceiling ahead of the baffles, as well as full-length 0.75-inch square runners behind the fronts of the baffles on both sides of the cabinet.

I'll post images later today (after burial service), and images should explain most everything else. If not, I'll try to answer any questions.

(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/415MCabinetFrontViewDWG.jpg)

(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/415MCabinetConstructionDWG.jpg)

(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/415MSpeakerBafflesDWG.jpg)

(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/415MGrilleFrameDWG.jpg)

Images later.

Warmest regards...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on June 22, 2010, 01:58:26 pm: Hi, Again,

Here are the images. With my notes, the images should be self-explanatory.

Here's the 3-quarter front view in the garage.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/01415MFront3Q.jpg)

Tight front view shows grille mounting blocks and baffles.
All eight corners have 3-point nickel-plated corners. You can get these from Conrad.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/02415MFront.jpg)

Handles on left side are centered 4 inches from the top and 4 inches from the bottom.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/03415MHandleSide.jpg)

Rubber feet (from Conrad) on right side are centered 2 inches in and down from each corner.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/04415MFootSide.jpg)

All sides have 3/4-inch doublers that are 1-1/2 inches wide.
This makes the wood under the Tolex appear to be 1-1/2 inches wide.
1-inch by 1-1/2-inch rails are behind the doublers. Grille mounting blocks are attached to the rails.
Baffles snug against the rails, and 3/4-inch-square supports run full-length, top-to-bottom, behind the baffles.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/05415MSideConstruction.jpg)

The floor has a triangular gusset running from side to side in front of the baffles.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/06415MBottomConstruction.jpg)

Another triangular gusset is at the top. Grille mounting blocks are centered at the top and bottom.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/07415MTopConstruction.jpg)

Detail of a typical side grille mounting block, each of which is 1 by 1-1/2 by 1-1/2 inches
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/08415MSideGrillBlock.jpg)

Here's the grille block at the top.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/09415MTopCornerGrilleBlock.jpg)

Another grille block at the bottom. The nylon hook & loop parts can be replaced with
Industrial Strength VELCRO brand hook & loop material from the craft store.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/11415MBottomCornerGrilleBlock.jpg)

Center triangle gusset is 12-1/2 inches wide, and cut to fit the angle of the left and right baffles.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/12415MCenterBaffleGusset.jpg)

The grille (from Conrad) is mounted on the frame, followed by the Sunn logo plate.
For other projects, I scanned the logo plate, then removed the registration mark and had my
graphics guy duplicate the logo in black vinyl. I cut aluminum plates to size, then drilled them
and used a countersink to fit the #4 x 1/2-inch Phillips-head wood screws. I applied the vinyl over the plates,
then used #600 wet-or-dry on a rubber block to get the appropriate semi-satin finish.
I'll show you the results when I post a few of my other pieces. I removed the registration marks because I don't
want to mislead anyone. I just enjoy keeping the appearance of my equipment pseudo-correct.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/13415MGrille.jpg)

Here's the grille frame from the rear. All corners should be rounded.
Be sure the leave extra wood at the top left corner for the logo plate.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/14415MGrilleFrame.jpg)

In keeping with fooling only myself, I hit the centers of my Eminence speakers with a light coat of
silver spray. Cheesy, yes, but it makes me feel good and looks correct when the grille is mounted.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/15415MFAUXJBLEminence.jpg)

Here's the ID tag on the cabinet back.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/jefftroyimages/16415MIDTag.jpg)

Warmest regards,

Warmest...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: chev on June 26, 2010, 09:47:32 pm: wow that cab is huge! amazing! i love it. :evil:
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: D(o)))(((o)M on June 26, 2010, 11:37:19 pm: not really that big 26 wide by 40 high by 18" deep is pretty darn close to the size of a 2x15 cabinet, but the sound is huge yes definitely!! so i start my build on monday and i'll post pics and such. I'm making some mods to the original design to make the cabinet road-worthy. mainly huge scoop(marshall-style) handles on the sides and mine will be running at 2ohms. i'm gonna have to wait for supplies (i.e. grill cloth,tolex, corners etc...) but the wood shell will be finished by the end of the week jeff troy you rule my friend. those drawings are just what i needed ... i made a cut list that i'll also post so if anybody else wants to build one of these beasts it will even be more simplified. i just cant wait to get started!!!
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: rot gut on June 27, 2010, 11:57:22 am: thanks for the blueprint, i'm probably gonna make one when i have some spare cash and time.

how are the baffles held in place?
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: stanner on June 27, 2010, 12:19:07 pm: any sound structure theory guys on here? i would like to know about the efficiency of those V shaped baffles.
having speakers facing semi towards each other would seem to limit output.
am i wrong here?
(i have two sunn 4X15s and just wondering)
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: ROCKETBRO2 on June 28, 2010, 04:56:58 pm: The coverage is sure good. I played at a club with low ceilings one time and set it on it's side on an elevated platform on the stage and I think that was the best it ever sounded.
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Where's Uranus? on June 29, 2010, 07:32:45 am: Hey Jeff,
Thanks for the diagrams. You know you can buy aluminum dustcaps, if you really want to go for the authentic look. Sound Speaker Repair (http://www.soundspeakerrepair.com/speaker-parts-cp/DCA4100/Dust-Caps/Dust+Caps/) sell them as replacement parts for JBL, though I should mention the original Sunn drivers (or bass transducers as the label says) were not vented through the pole-piece but vented through the dustcap, or at least mine are, I've been having a devil of a time finding a replacement dustcap. Weber say they have a 3" vented aluminum dustcap, that they make in house.

(http://dub.greboguru.org/dustcap.jpg)

Yep I currently have my spare Sunn drivers doing home hi-fi duty. :lol:

Might I be permitted the observation that yours is the only 415 I have seen that does not have a port at the bottom? Has the baffle been replaced at some point or were there two types of 415 made, ported and unported? Does it suffer from undue vibration, with the speakers in a sealed cabinet?
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on June 29, 2010, 01:41:02 pm: Hi, LB,

Really don't know the answers to your questions. I bought the cabinet used with no speakers, and am only now installing speakers.

I've never played through the cabinet so I don't yet know about vibration.

The cab appears unmodified, so if other 415M cabs are ported, there must have been two models.

Wish I could be more concise for you, but I'm in the dark right now.

Warmest...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Where's Uranus? on June 29, 2010, 03:35:46 pm: Hey Jeff,
Don't worry about it, I was curious more than anything else. If you look at CLD's picture, you can see the port is really what looks like a triangular support, with holes cut in the baffle under it. So far the 415M's I have seen for sale in recent times all appear to have this port configuration

(http://sunn.ampage.org/sdp/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5235.0;attach=1147;image)

Mine isn't so much a build as a tribute, I'm repurposing an old Peavey 2x15 cab ripping out the baffle and putting in a triangular one to house four speakers. This gets round the wifes 'no more speakers in the house' rule, as it won't be another cab. It's not quite as deep as the Sunn cab, so I'm going to have to fudge it a little I think. All that information on how the baffles are mounted is awesome though. I'd have thought they just bolted it straight to the cab, but they've left it almost floating. Less angle cuts to make I suppose, just need to groove the back support, the rest is all straight cuts.
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: HRobert on June 29, 2010, 09:53:32 pm: Quote from: stanner on June 27, 2010, 12:19:07 pm
any sound structure theory guys on here? i would like to know about the efficiency of those V shaped baffles.
having speakers facing semi towards each other would seem to limit output.
am i wrong here?
(i have two sunn 4X15s and just wondering)

Stanner. The "V" shapped baffles act as a "horn loaded" system. With the speakers facing each other at that angle actually causes the sound waves to reinforce each other so as to strengthen the sound.
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: D(o)))(((o)M on July 03, 2010, 06:55:02 am: sound waves reinforcing oneanother I heard that... literally... Just an update the build is nearing its end... I went for the ported design with a few mods to the original sketch I was good. I got two fender 300watt 15" speakers in it and two black widows... Man it totally rumbles my whole house the coliseum lead I was testing with nearly vibrated off the cabinet. So i put acoustical foam on the interior and it sounds great... the jaack is the old school 3/4" disc sunn/ fender type. I added scoop handles similar to those found on marshalls. silver corners and black tolex... I will post all myt pics when i'm finished with the grill cloth, which i just got in the mail... thanks to jeff troy, you're the ma couldn't of replicated it as well without you!!!...i'll post some pics and descriptions later...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Greg_M on February 18, 2011, 06:30:03 pm: I wanted to thank Jeff Troy for publishing his restoration techniques in this thread. I am using them on my 200S amp and I am shocked at how well it works.
The pictures just don't do it justice. I had to vary from the exact products recommendations because they are not available where I live.

Here's what I did use...
Simple Green I used this on a '66 Fender grill and was amazed at how well it took off cigarette smoke stain
Gorilla Super Glue to fix a couple of small tears. Worked great
Kiwi Black Scuff Cover This is truly amazing stuff. The wife and I could not believe how well this stuff worked.
Meguiars Next Generation Tech Protect Interior Protectant Sprayed it on, rubbed it around and let it sit. After a couple hours had to wipe some of it off and then it dried.

So thanks Jeff, for the tricks.
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Jeff Troy on February 21, 2011, 06:32:53 am: Hi, Greg,

Thanks for the nice words. All the substitutions you chose are top quality products.

It's amazing how simple a restoration can be using simple methods and commonly available products. All you have to do is apply both the methods and products the right way.

Glad I could help.

Warmest regards...
Title: Re: Restored Sunn 415M Cabinet
Post by: Where's Uranus? on November 13, 2016, 06:45:42 pm: But have you seen this?

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p296x100/1510033_928671727192278_4228576569596686728_n.jpg?oh=e503ab27bbadc1032558e68b2f7c014e&oe=5890D57E)