Author Topic: 69 Sunn 200s  (Read 9128 times)

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Offline djc

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69 Sunn 200s
« on: April 02, 2007, 04:04:54 pm »
I have finnally bought my Sunn! but the power transformer(Ithink) is blown.  from the back which is the power, the left or the right?  also the other transformer(output?) is original, it is a Schumacher.  the other has been replaced once with a Dynaco P 782.  should I go with this again or get a shcumacher.  thanks.

Offline basiklybass

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2007, 05:26:18 pm »
The 200S I just finished rebuilding has the power transformer on the right. I bought the replacement from Triode. Here's a link to their E bay listing. It is listed as a Dynaco transformer but it works fine. A bit smaller but it fit no problem. I believe that the power transformer is less important than the output transformer, as long as the voltages are correct and it has the current capacity. You should be aware that the major cause of power transformer failures in Sunn 200S amps is the power capacitors have gone south. They are in the tall silver tube at the front. Hard to find and I think it is Soundgreg on this forum who has a great discussion on modding the power section for better headroom. I followed his advice and am really pleased with the performance.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PA135-Dynaco-Mk4-Mark-IV-Sunn-Power-Transformer-NEW_W0QQitemZ7403763763QQcategoryZ43375QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Offline djc

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2007, 06:33:31 pm »
thanks for the help, just to be clear, the output transformer is closest to the power cord?  that would be on the left looking from the rear of the amp?  and if anyone has any more info, should I replace that transformer with a Dynaco P 782?  does anyone know what the original transformer was?

Offline EdBass

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2007, 07:06:53 pm »
Generally the output transformer is the one closest to the speaker outputs. On the original Sunn 60 watt amps the output was a Dynaco A431, and the power was a Dynaco P782.
Some do have Schumacher transformers. You might find an old one, they were OEM on a lot of amps in the olden days. I don't think the audio transformers are a stock item from Schumacher anymore, they might wind you one to spec, but it probably won't be cheap.
I'll second the filter cap upgrade, there is even a MkIII PCB kit available from SDS that upgrades the original 20, 20, 20, 30 525V can cap to 60, 60, 60, 60 630V.

Offline djc

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2007, 07:21:49 pm »
thanks again for the info.  I'll be ordering the Dynaco P 782 and we were going to replace the Caps and stuff too.  thanks for the links

Offline djc

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2007, 07:26:30 pm »
one more question.  What's SDS?

Offline basiklybass

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2007, 07:40:26 pm »
Ooops, sorry, I meant my other left. I was thinking of the way it looked upside down on my bench...with the power cord closest to the power transformer. Once I put it together and on top of the speaker...I just close my eyes and play...loudly.

I believe SDS is a company that sells Dynaco kits and parts. I did find a company that sells what they claim is an original part for the multi cap can, if you want to stay as close to original as possible. I'll see if I can find the link.

I just left the can there and put new caps between some terminals strips I got from Radio Shack. I built the caps assembly and then installed it with rivets. I also defeated the polarity switch, added a cap between the neutral and the chassis and installed a 3000ma LED in a small hole I drilled in the power switch since the neon lamp had long ago glowed it's last glow. I took the power off of the bias circuit, adjusted the current with a 14K (I think) resistor and re-biased to 55 volts, per the Dynaco specs. A new set of JJ's and now I feel like 1968 again.....until I twist a bit too far as I am getting down and I remember that I am not 17 any more...and that the hand that makes an "L" is the left one.

Sorry again.

Offline djc

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2007, 07:56:09 pm »
Ha!  that's great!  Easy on the technical advice, I'm just learning.  I'm a soundman turned bass player with a newfound love for tube sound!  and yes, I want that vintage sound, so please list that link for caps.  as for the rest of it, right now my power switch light is the only thing that works.  physically the head looks great, I think it's been in a closet with a blown transformer for the last 15 years.

side note, why did you defeat the polarity switch?

Offline EdBass

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2007, 08:17:17 pm »
I just left the can there and put new caps between some terminals strips I got from Radio Shack. I built the caps assembly and then installed it with rivets.
What did you use for the new caps? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you did bypass the old can, not just add some capacitors, right?
I also defeated the polarity switch, added a cap between the neutral and the chassis
Umm..plug conversion?
installed a 3000ma LED in a small hole I drilled in the power switch since the neon lamp had long ago glowed it's last glow. I took the power off of the bias circuit, adjusted the current with a 14K (I think) resistor and re-biased to 55 volts, per the Dynaco specs. A new set of JJ's and now I feel like 1968 again
Maybe you feel like 1968 again, but I'm not so sure that your amp feels like 1968 again!

Offline EdBass

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2007, 08:29:16 pm »
one more question.  What's SDS?
It's a small (I think one person) vintage audio lab. Triode carries the cap board, here's the kit;
http://www.triodeelectronics.com/sdslabmk3cap1.html
It took a long time to get one, I'm not sure if Triode keeps them in stock.
Gets the job done though, and although using a PCB in a vintage point to point amp is sort of sacrilegious, it's a neat, well designed little package.

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2007, 06:44:36 pm »
Yah its me that posted the mod advice for the 200S way back. You can go with that approach, or use an SDS board too. I have an SDS board for my Dynaco Stereo 70 and its good quality. I completely rewired my 200S and isolated all grounds from the chassis so I could change the grounding scheme, so in my application, the discrete caps were a better choice than the SDS board. Whichever way you go, the larger cap values in the power supply make for a better amp for bass by a longshot. The end result for this mod should be 110uf, 50uf, 20uf, 20uf, using caps wired in series for the first two stages to get a high enough voltage rating, and the 3rd cap should be a 500v cap. This requires 220uf 350v caps wired in series with 220k 1w resistors in parallel with each cap to get that 110uf value. A similar thing for the 50uf value with two 100uf caps in series and the resistors also. Using a replacement for the can isn't a good idea because it is only rated to 525v and the amp puts out more like 560v. Do a search in the archives for my old post on it as it goes into all the details.

If your power light works, then the power transformer is working. The output transformer could be blown, in which case Triode Electronics sells excellent replacements. The polarity switch is not needed with a 3 wire grounding system like modern electronics uses. I put mine to use as a ground lift switch, but as I said, the whole amp has to be rewired to make this work. You could just disconnect it if you change over to a proper 3 wire grounding system. If you need to know how to do this, there is info at other forums in the archives like the Hoffman amp forum for instance, or someone could type it here too. If you don't know what you're doing in regards to working on high voltage tube amps, you should learn before messing with it, or take the amp to a qualified tech as it is dangerous and can kill you.

Greg


Offline basiklybass

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2007, 08:59:59 pm »
Yep, I followed the previous postings and am please, thanks SoundmasterG, good directions and explanations.

Offline EdBass

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2007, 09:39:56 pm »
I'm a believer in power supply overkill, that's where it all begins. At startup before the octals get cooking, even with a tube rectifier in the 60 watters the filter caps can see some pretty big voltage, on the order of +/- 580V.
The old 525V can cap can take it, but it certainly doesn't due it any good over the years.
Also, as Soundmasterg mentions; be careful inside those old amps, a slip up with a charged filter cap can ruin your day in a hurry.

Offline Isaac

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Re: 69 Sunn 200s
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2007, 11:14:20 pm »
Isaac