Author Topic: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass  (Read 2310 times)

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Offline CLD

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That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« on: October 15, 2009, 04:25:39 pm »
Following up on this post from awhile back (http://sunn.ampage.org/sdp/index.php/topic,4153.msg15361.html), I discovered that unplugging my speakers immediately before hitting the power switch and plugging them into the head immediately afterward is one way to avoid that killer whuuump upon startup.

As long as I plug the speakers in immediately, will this avoid damaging the amp (as opposed to damaging the speakers with that loud whuuump)?

In addition to the lower playing volume mentioned in another post, the whuuump is louder with the untouched original '71 Vegas than with the reconed Vegas.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 04:46:39 pm by CLD »
Sunn since June 1971!
1971 Sorado, 2000S, Coliseum Bass, Coliseum Lead
1970 200S; 1974 Coliseum 880

Offline Happy Face

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Re: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2009, 07:42:23 am »
There was a thread about this over on the Marshall thread on the Vintage Amps board a while back. (I was interested because I had a big old Marshall head that had the same "pop" as my Coliseum.)

For what it's worth, the consensus was that no damage was being done to your speakers. There was a fix offered, via adding a resistor or something, but that was for Marshalls.

Offline bigobassman

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Re: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2009, 07:52:51 am »
Hey CLD - from what I've read, SS heads with no load is no where near as important as no load with tube heads.  So I'm thinking that the few seconds that you're having no load with your SS would be insignificant.  Heck, I've had some SSs on for several minutes before I realized there was no load, (foolin with several things at the same time) no problems.   8-)
"You can't have too much bass."

Offline noel

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Re: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2009, 10:36:17 am »
I've never experienced this issue before but I would suggest having the speakers plugged in at all times.  Investigate the marshall fix...I'm thinking that the resistor mentioned is just a shunt to ground.  Anyway, it'd be easy to fix with a little thought. 

Regarding the question of load, THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A LOAD!  I've never heard that SS or Tube equipment behaves inherently different when a load is not connected...probably because it doesn't :-)  The point is that you can get by fine without a load for a few minutes either way but you're asking for trouble.  You're just inviting a headache by not connecting a load.

Hope that helps.

Offline Happy Face

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Re: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2009, 01:01:07 pm »
I've never experienced this issue before but I would suggest having the speakers plugged in at all times.  Investigate the marshall fix...I'm thinking that the resistor mentioned is just a shunt to ground.  Anyway, it'd be easy to fix with a little thought. 


Here's some quotes from the Marshall group. It's far beyond my feeble expertise, but it sounds in line with what you suggest. 

"Marshalls used to suffer this problem.....standby pop. It was cured with a 47nF cap to ground from the filter cap side of the standby switch."

"The pop can be fixed by taking a .05/600v cap and putting it from the cold side of the switch to ground."

Offline bigobassman

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Re: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2009, 03:31:42 pm »


Regarding the question of load, THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A LOAD!  I've never heard that SS or Tube equipment behaves inherently different when a load is not connected...probably because it doesn't :-) 

You might consider checking out some of the other forums.  Contrary to your statement, the over whelming consensus on at least 2 different forums that I've read (including that "big one") is SS - no load, no problem, with the opposite being true for tubes.  I'm no expert on the subject and, as I stated, my comments are based upon the information discovered reading bunches of threads concerning the issue on a couple of different sites.  :-)
"You can't have too much bass."

Offline CLD

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Re: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2009, 10:27:34 pm »
And it seems reasonable to assume that a few seconds would not pose the problem that, say, 15 minutes or longer would.
Sunn since June 1971!
1971 Sorado, 2000S, Coliseum Bass, Coliseum Lead
1970 200S; 1974 Coliseum 880

Offline Enzo

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Re: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2009, 12:45:04 am »
A solid state amp produces a signal voltage at the output.  No current flows until a load is put on that output.  You can run a solid state amp all day without a load, it won;t care.  In fact we run them without a load here on the bench until we are certain they are not putting out DC.
 
Tube amps MUST have a load, all the time.  It isn;t about length of time, you can turn up your tube amp without a speaker and destroy the output transformer with one strum of a chord.   or you might get away with it for a long time, you never know.  Many amps have flyback diodes across the output to protect the circuit from this.  Unloaded output transformer can reflect the waveform back at seriously elevated voltage, which can puncture the insulation and arc the transformer windings.   

 SS amp power is generally fairly low voltage to start with, darn few we see with rails over 100v, and there is no transformer to kick back-voltages up with its inductance.  Tube amps start with plate voltages in the 500v range, and the inductive kickback of the unloaded transformer can kick it up over a kV easily.  Most flyback diodes are 2000-3000v.


Whump is limited to the power rail voltage.  If your amp runs on +/-50v, then 50v is all the larger a peak can be.  All by itself, whump sounds pretty dramatic, but it is no louder (and probably a good bit less loud) than the loudest passage the amp can pass.  If the speakers can handle the full output of the amp, then the whump is not a problem.   Bascially it is no different from a kick drum hit.

Offline noel

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Re: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2009, 10:16:45 am »
Enzo is correct that the output is at signal level.  There will be no current flow without a load.  However, there will be a small amount of current flowing through the feedback loop of the amp (even with no load connected).  As stated, you should be able to leave this on all day without a load although I wouldn't recommend it...what would be the point?  I think the thing to take away from this would be that you could bench test a SS amp with no load.

Regarding your situation, you could put a cap on the input to basically absorb that pop.  Or you could just turn down the volume when you turn it on.  Either way I'd keep the cab in there just so you're not messing with plugging things in and out.  Turning a knob seems like less brain damage to me.

Offline CLD

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Re: That "whuuump" sound when turning on my Coliseum Bass
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2009, 03:24:50 pm »
The volume knob is always set to 0 when I power up the amp.  The volume control doesn't affect the whuuump volume.
Sunn since June 1971!
1971 Sorado, 2000S, Coliseum Bass, Coliseum Lead
1970 200S; 1974 Coliseum 880