The sunn Forum
Sunn Musical Equipment => Q & A => Topic started by: mike on November 07, 2000, 03:51:00 pm
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I've been thinking of getting the ball rolling on this for some time, but replying to the Badfinger post has finally got me motiviated. As this site is ultimate source for Sunn amp info, curiously there's no definitive historical list of notable users through the years. Now, while it would be virtually impossible to be all-inclusive, it would be fantastic if all of you could add to the list that I'm going to start, if you know of a player that at one time or another used Sunn amps. HOWEVER, there seems to be a fair amount of hearsay, conjecture, and flat-out misinformation as to who really used/uses Sunn gear. Even the present-day Sunn(via Fender)amp website puts forth some questionable information----Brian May? While Queen bassist John Deacon definitely used Sunn amps, May is a Vox AC-30 guy all the way. Tommy Iommi? All that I've ever seen him use were Laney stacks...perhaps Geezer has used Sunn at some point. Kiss? Well, yeah, there are those old print ad endorsements, but Gene Simmons will whore himself out for a lot of things; I've only seen him use Ampeg SVT's. So, please, the only criteria for adding to this list should be that you've actually seen the player live, or live on TV, or an actual concert photo, or quoted in an interview, using Sunn. I'll add an "iffy" list also, open to discussion or verification from anyone. I realize that a lot of memories can be hazy(purple?), but let's try to keep this as historically accurate as possible! Have fun with this...thanks. If you have any doubts about(or imbellishments to) my listings, please feel free to point 'em out............................and the nominations are(in no particular order)..................The Kingsmen--Norm Sundholm(ground zero!); Jimi Hendrix Experience--Jimi and Noel Redding(of course, although Jimi himself wasn't too happy with Sunn, Noel thought they were the greatest amps); Buffalo Springfield--Bruce Palmer &/or Jim Messina; Grateful Dead--Phil Lesh(2000s cabs only); CCR--Stu Cook(2000s cabs only); Country Joe & the Fish(bass amps); Jefferson Airplane--Jack Cassidy(at least speaker cabs); It's A Beautiful Day(bass amp); New York Rock and Roll Ensemble--future film composer/rock orchestrator Michael Kamen(Coliseums); The Who--Pete Townshend(briefly) & John Entwistle(for a long time); The Buckinghams(guitar & bass amps); Cryin' Shames(another mid/late '60s Chicago band--bass amp); Mountain--Felix Pappalardi and Leslie West(do I have to explain it?); The Velvet Underground--Reed, Morrison, & Yule (full 1200s and 2000s rigs...just look on the back of the original "Loaded" LP); Lou Reed's back up band on the "Transformer" tour(Coliseum stacks); Jeff Beck Group #2--Beck(possibly) & bassist Clive Chapman(definitely--Coliseum stacks); Beck, Bogert, & Appice--Tim Bogert(Coliseums); Moody Blues--John Lodge(Coliseum stack); Queen--John Deacon; Todd Rundgren's Utopia(Coliseum); Fleetwood Mac(Peter Green era)--John McVie(cab only); Blue Oyster Cult--Joe Bouchard(Coliseum bass stack); Mahavishnu Orchestra--Rick Laird(Coliseum bass stack); Vandergraff Generator(great English '70s prog band)--Nic Potter(Concert bass rig); Beach Boys--earliest Sunn PA system; Bread--David Gates(Coliseum head & 2000s cab...I should know, I've got the cab!); The Dickies(early LA punk band--200s rig); Dead Kennedys--Klaus Flouride; Japan(unique English prog/new wave band)--Mick Karn(Coliseum); Little Feat--Kenny Gradney(Coliseum half-stack; look carefully on the cover of "Waiting For Columbus"); Steppenwolf--Nick St. Nicklaus(200s rigs); Glen Cornick(original Jethro Tull bassist) used a 412L cab in a mid-70's band with Bob Welch called "Paris".....jeez, did I leave anyone out? (Yeah, I know, that mook with Kid Rock...well, maybe that guitar player is a nice guy, but Kid Rock is definitely a mook)..............So, here's my "I Don't Know, But I've Been Told" list.....If you look on the back of the first "Live Cream" album, there's a Sunn Orion cab in the middle of all the Marshall stacks....did Jack Bruce ever really use Sunn amps at any time as it's reported? The Allman Bros:I think I've read that Berry Oakley used 2000s rigs; in one photo of the original band I've seen a 1200s head. Anybody know for sure? I've seen concert photos of Derek and the Dominoes with a Coliseum cab in the background; is that Clapton's or Carl Radle's? Did anyone actually see Gene use Sunn's live with Kiss? What about Geezer Butler with Sabbath? And finally, next time you watch "Gimmie Shelter" on video, look for the 200s(style) cab being used as a floor monitor for the Stones at Altamont...I wonder if it got destroyed by the Hell's Angels...on second thought, we all know nothing can destroy a Sunn speaker cabinet, right?
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Mike,
Man, you sure have done your homework. Thanks for all the great info!!
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Mike
Open for any questions you have.
Norm Sundholm
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Great list !! Just wanted to add, Jerry Scheff the studio bassist for The Doors LA Woman album is seen in photos using a 200S . Think ..Riders on the Storm
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Yow! How could I have overlooked that one! Jerry also used a 2000s on stage with Elvis in his early '70s "Vegas comeback" days.
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Buzz from the Melvins uses Beta Leads. They are kinda weird, rack-mounted with most of the input/output section on the face. He has 2.
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I think Three Dog Night used Sunn for bass; I'm also pretty sure that they used giant Tolex-covered Sunn leslies for the Hammond organ (however, I think that they were actually Hammond 900 or 910 series Leslies, but when Sunn got ahold of them, they put their "Sunn" badge on them and called them Sunn leslies; they got in trouble for doing the exact same thing with Hammond organs; I think they basically put their badge over the Hammond logo, and were fined big money for that!)
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Hello:
Yes Tommy Iommi was a endorser of Sunn. I have a poster from the 1984 NAMM that he signed at the booth.
Don T.
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You may also want to consider the bands/artists who may not of necessarily used SUNN amps live (possibly some due to conflicting endorsement deals) BUT recorded studio tracks with them. The main recording studio in Rochester, NY during the '70s-'80s used a 200S in it's main room as the studio bass amp...one of the reasons I liked it, since I didn't have to bring my 2000S. I know Yes, Chuch Mangione, Lou Gramm and a lot of other major artists recorded there. I also recently picked up another 2000S that I was told had been a studio amp Stone Temple Pilots had used for recording.
So, maybe you'd also like to document stuff like this where maybe the actual sound of SUNN can be heard and documented?
-jon
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Rush: Geddy Lee
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Green Day records with a Coliseum Bass and 2x15 (mids) along with svt (lows).
News73
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Great stuff! Actually it's Tony Iommi from Black Sabbath. I have a picture of Elvis and Jerry Scheff with a Sunn amp in the background.
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Re: Sunn Bass rig for the Allmans - They were one of the first bands I saw, and the cabinets were those (2x15?) with the silver rectangles on the black grill cloth, the wide silver vertical stripe in mid cabinet going from top to bottom. I believe that the heads were also Sunn, but cannot remember for sure. I would bet money that those cabs had the D140F's - listen to The Allman Bros. Live at the Fillmore - those are definitely JBL D140s - deep, and smooooooth top. Gotta love it.
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Stephen O'Malley (Burning Witch,Sunn0))),
Khanate) and Greg Anderson (Goatsnake) both use SUNN amps. If you've heard any of these bands albums you'll experience the true destructive power of the SUNN.
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Ted Nugent used the Enforcer under his own signature.
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Hello:
Yes indeed Ted Had enforcers called Penetrators with knobs that went to 12 (to one up Spinal Tap)
Don T.
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According to Rod Price of Foghat in the June '01 issue of Vintage Guitar Magazine he states that he was using a Sunn Model T amp in the late '70s. I saw Foghat in 1977 but due to my drugged out condition can't recall what equipment was being used. For what it's worth I did purchase a Model T head not long after and still have it to this day (mint cond too w/Sunn 610s). Ritchie Fliegler in his book "Amps", mentions the only band he ever saw using the Model T was Foghat. I guess he wasn't using the stuff I was.
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Chris Squire is using a 6X12 V-cab in the "Yessongs" video.
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Just trying to bump this up; I put just a wee bit of time in on this originally, and I didn't want it to get buried, plus it was posted before the "bands using Sunn" column was created.
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Saw Ted Nugent many many years ago and his bassist was using Coliseums. Have also heard of Timothy B. Schmidt ( Eagles, Poco ) using Model T's.
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Steven Brodsky and Adam McGrath from the Boston band Cave In use Sunns. Steven uses an original Model T with a Sunn 412 (generation unknown) and Adam uses a Sunn head but I don't know what model or what cab he uses. I saw them play live with this gear.
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Cave In has been using that gear for a while now. Pete Stahl of Goatsnake, also a Sunn 0))) amplified band, is their tour sound guy and he was the one to turn them to the dark side. I believe McGrath uses a 2000s. He uses that along with a Marshall jcm 800 2203. I know Stephen uses a boss os-2 to overdrive the amp and I'm pretty sure Adam uses the same. They're tons louder than when they used to use marshall and mesa stuff live. The mesa was a badddddd idea. The record label Southern Lord indexes their releases with sunn-xxx depending on what number the release is. They are also home to the band SUNN0))) and is owned by Greg Anderson, member of goatsnake and sunn0)). There should be a six degrees of separation game played to link sunn bands together.
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Sammy Carlson, The Regents
http://pnwbands.com/sammy.htm
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The first two concerts I got to go to as a young teen in 69 & 70 was Steppenwolf & Three Dog Night at the Indianapolis Coliseum. Both bass players used 200S amps. Next it was Grand Funk, Mel was using Sunn.
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Nick Oliveri, Kyuss, Concert Bass Amp, at least for blues for the RED SUN (see cover). :evil:
I is said that Curt Cobain used a concert lead, but I'm not 100% about this. :|
Greetings
Oliver
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Randy Holden of the Other Half who went onto play in Blue Cheer used 16 Sunn amps!!!!!! Can you possibly imagine how that sounded. When asked what it sounded like, he commented it was all in the pursuit of happiness. Personally I could do with some of that..if that is how happiness is to be defined.
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I saw Bachman Turner Overdrive live back in the mid seventies. At first glance, it appears that the guitarists were using Marshall amps, but, on closer inspection, I'm sure they were Sunn Model T amps in faux Marshall cabinets. Of course, I can't prove it, but that is my recollection, and I was never a druggie, so my memory is not quite as suspect as some might be.
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and ! another great band...kind of unheard of but i have all their albums..because they were a horn band in the late 60's ....TEN WHEEL DRIVE...they all used sunn amps...i have an album of them and on the back of it they had a row of 100s and 200s on stage at a live outdoor concert....every time i look at the cover..it brings a smiles to my face because the band my brother and i ran...10 members...horn section..played some outdoor gigs and my 200s boomed outside...clear as a bass BELL..been there..Bob from mass.
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The first two concerts I got to go to as a young teen in 69 & 70 was Steppenwolf & Three Dog Night at the Indianapolis Coliseum. Both bass players used 200S amps. Next it was Grand Funk, Mel was using Sunn.
Mel used West Fillmore amps. Very "Sunn like", 200 watts from a quartet of KT88's, as with Sunn based on the Dynaco circuit.
Here's a picture of the back of his touring amp, and one of his rig from the front, circa 1971. Eight D140F's, imagine how much air that rig moved!
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Hi,
"Fillmore" amps...never heared of them. Can U tell a bit more about them?
Greetings
Oliver
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I think West is the brand, and Fillmore the model.
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Hi,
"Fillmore" amps...never heared of them. Can U tell a bit more about them?
Greetings
Oliver
David West was a high end HiFi retailer in Flint, Michigan who built amps for some of the local players, (Dick Wagner, Grand Funk Railroad, etc.) starting in the mid 1960's.
Here's a quote from Dave West, showing an interesting "Sunn Connection";
"Before the JBL speakers even came in, Dick told me that his friends in a local band, Terry Knight and the Pack, (shades of Grand Funk) were the first band outside of Norm Sundholm's own band to play the new Sunn amplifiers and "would I like to see one?" I said "what the heck, bring one in." The amp arrived in the shop and I proceeded to take it apart. Much to my surprise it contained a completely stock Dynaco Mark III power amp and a very little modified Dynaco PAM-I monaural preamp. They were putting these items in a cabinet, putting JBL speakers in a cabinet, and getting LARGE BUCKS for these things. I thought, "If they can do it, why can't I?""
And...he did! The 50 watt "Avalon", the 100 watt "Grande", and of course the 200 watt Fillmore".
West Amps are very Sunn like and very rare. Like old Sunn's, I buy West's when I find them. There are rumours that the Avalon, Grande, and Fillmore will be re-issued, as Mr. West is still in business building/modifying amps; mostly very low wattage/high dollar boutique gear, and providing high end components to boutique amp manufacturers.
http://www.westlabs.com/
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Was it a "local phänomen" that they all used the Dynaco Mark III design for bass amplification or were there more amps buit on it's basis. I mean, there is this Ampeg B 15 design for bass since the early 60's (1961,62(???))... it would have been no problem for an technican to add an extra power amp for more RMS power. Instead of this they prefered a HIFI Amp design to start with!
Just to be shure that there is no misunderstanding: I dont't wanna say that someone has stolen or cloned anything in any way! The SUNN amps are great in the way they are!
Greetings
Oliver
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The first two concerts I got to go to as a young teen in 69 & 70 was Steppenwolf & Three Dog Night at the Indianapolis Coliseum. Both bass players used 200S amps. Next it was Grand Funk, Mel was using Sunn.
Mel used West Fillmore amps. Very "Sunn like", 200 watts from a quartet of KT88's, as with Sunn based on the Dynaco circuit.
Here's a picture of the back of his touring amp, and one of his rig from the front, circa 1971. Eight D140F's, imagine how much air that rig moved!
I saw Grand Funk in 1970 and I believe that was before Mel switched to his West rig. I saw them again in 1971 and there was a Wall of West Amps. I grew up in Noblesville Indiana, about 12 miles north of Indianapolis and the local music store ( Vic Zinn Music ) carried Sunn. The store originally was an appliance store and the owner didn't really know alot about the gear. As a hobby I knew all the specs and prices of the Sunn gear and dreamed of someday owning one. I would hang out before and after my guitar lesson and when someone would ask the specs or price of an amp rather than walk back to his desk to find a price sheet Vic would holler at me to come over and answer questions his customer had. Pretty awesome for a 15 year old! I was always watching for Sunn amps at concerts.
On a side note I remember as 100S amps were being sold they were soon returned because nobody liked the JBL horn. The repairman would remove the horn and modify the cabinet over to two D130s. There was quite a collection of JBL horns hanging on the wall in the repair room.
At 16 I bought my Dream amp, a used Spectrum 1. First thing I did was make a new baffle and buy a second D130 from Vic and then put new grill cloth on. My buddy had a Dual Showman with two D130s, we were rockin! When we played a couple of local school dances we rented a Sorado from Vic for our bass player, no problem filling an auditorium with sound!
I recently bought a West Grande just to check it out. UPS managed to break both transformers and the cap can off, they were hanging by the wires. Fortunately they paid the claim so I got it free, but I haven't had time to fix it yet.
Check out the Sunn cabs in the Grand Funk pictures. I believe one is the right half of the same picture EdBass posted. They appear to be behind Don's Drum kit. I wonder whats going into them, could it be the piano that Mark played? Are these leftovers from Mel's bass rig?
Johnny G.
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Here's video listed as being from 1969.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6chChxzV0&feature=related
And here's some real old footage, based on Mel's non- Gibson "mudbucker" pickup equipped Jazz bass, and how short Mark Farner's hair was... :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvMf3vp0DfA&feature=related
As far as those Sunn cabs in the photo, the fact that some kid is standing in front of them would probably indicate that they weren't active. My guess is they were backline gear for the headliner.
It would be almost impossible for a R&R show from that era to not have some Sunn gear on stage.
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I love all the link videos that everyoine posts here, its like an anthology of recent(last 60 years) music history. this is great! what year did music (and 3 pieces for that matter) die? :mrgreen:
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I love all the link videos that everyoine posts here, its like an anthology of recent(last 60 years) music history. this is great! what year did music (and 3 pieces for that matter) die? :mrgreen:
According to Don McLean, Feb. 3, 1959. I think it's still alive, personally. It's just partially buried by noise called "music".
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That sunn band isn't music to me. I wish they would rename themselves. Maybe its me but, I don't get them.
Am I suppost to be scared or bored? It annoys me so I guess it moves me on that level. :evil: Sorry just had to let
that out after I wasted 10 minutes waiting for something to happen while they droned on and on and on.
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oh, oh. this topic has been hashed through a few times. DON'T GO THERE (i agree with you) DON'T GO THERE!
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Here's video listed as being from 1969.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6chChxzV0&feature=related
And here's some real old footage, based on Mel's non- Gibson "mudbucker" pickup equipped Jazz bass, and how short Mark Farner's hair was... :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvMf3vp0DfA&feature=related
As far as those Sunn cabs in the photo, the fact that some kid is standing in front of them would probably indicate that they weren't active. My guess is they were backline gear for the headliner.
It would be almost impossible for a R&R show from that era to not have some Sunn gear on stage.
EdBass I think you are right. That video is from a documentary of the Midsummer Rock Festival in Cincinnati in 1970. That concert also had Mountain, Traffic, Alice Cooper & The Stooges. I think the curtain is hiding most of the next acts equipment which I think was Mountain. After checking some older info I'm sure Mel started out with West and I must be remembering Sunn from the opening act when I saw Grand Funk.
This reminded me of a poster I used to Drool over that was on the wall at Zinn Music. It was a Promo picture of Mountain with a WALL of Sunn. Does anyone else remember the poster or have a copy or picture of it?
Johnny G.
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Here's video listed as being from 1969.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6chChxzV0&feature=related
And here's some real old footage, based on Mel's non- Gibson "mudbucker" pickup equipped Jazz bass, and how short Mark Farner's hair was... :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvMf3vp0DfA&feature=related
As far as those Sunn cabs in the photo, the fact that some kid is standing in front of them would probably indicate that they weren't active. My guess is they were backline gear for the headliner.
It would be almost impossible for a R&R show from that era to not have some Sunn gear on stage.
EdBass I think you are right. That video is from a documentary of the Midsummer Rock Festival in Cincinnati in 1970. That concert also had Mountain, Traffic, Alice Cooper & The Stooges. I think the curtain is hiding most of the next acts equipment which I think was Mountain. After checking some older info I'm sure Mel started out with West and I must be remembering Sunn from the opening act when I saw Grand Funk.
This reminded me of a poster I used to Drool over that was on the wall at Zinn Music. It was a Promo picture of Mountain with a WALL of Sunn. Does anyone else remember the poster or have a copy or picture of it?
Johnny G.
Well, based on the era and the style of music, Mel should have used a 2000S rig!
Maybe he used Sunn when he was with "? and the Mysterians".
From what I gather, the West/Grand Funk connection goes back to when the players were in garage bands as adolescents. It seems they were all from Flint, Michigan, and with the possible exception of Dick Wagner’s stint with Alice Cooper, Grand Funk was probably the biggest band to come out of that genre.
I can’t think of another big name band that used West Amps, and I think the affiliation between Dave West and the members of Grand Funk go back to when the players were just kids.
Like Sunn, I think the West Laboratories story is an interesting chapter in Rock history that most current players are unaware of, with West being even far more obscure.
Somebody should write a book about the “other” US amp companies. A story about Sunn, West, Standel, Acoustic, Kustom, Gretsch (sort of), etc. would make interesting reading.
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I know this thread has been dead for awhile, but I have a fairly distinct memory of seeing Joe Walsh with Barnstorm in Jan 1973 using a Model T, one of the first I had seen outside of the local music store. When I say "fairly distinct memory", I mean by that I was straight, but my attention was diverted by my girlfriend (now wife), who had foolishly played pharmaceutical bingo with her brother's epilepsy meds; I missed a lot of a truly great show making sure she didn't check out on me...opening act was an all-acoustic set by a then unknown Dan Folgelberg (someday I gotta make a cleaned-up copy of the bootleg tape I made of that show).
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JOe preston from Thrones uses a coliseum and also coliseum 880
I have also seen footage of Sly and the famliy stone use sunn on the woodstock dvd I don't know which amps but they where definitly sunn!!! Wino from the Hidden hand also uses a model t and one of the guitarist from pentagram also used a model T. the bass player from Boris uses two 1st gen model t's or maybe three don't remember. I know I have seen others but I can't seem to remember who else used these great amps.
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just to clarify from what i know-
sunn amps/cabs were backlined for the whole woodstock wknd. they are pictured on the 2nd woodstock record of bands that weren't included in the movie.
BORIS uses SUNN0)))'s Stephen O'Malley's sunn amps when touring usa.
and i like that JoePreston schleps all his own cabs/amps when playing live.
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just to clarify from what i know-
sunn amps/cabs were backlined for the whole woodstock wknd. they are pictured on the 2nd woodstock record of bands that weren't included in the movie.
BORIS uses SUNN0)))'s Stephen O'Malley's sunn amps when touring usa.
and i like that JoePreston schleps all his own cabs/amps when playing live.
I thought I had heard that sunn was the amp choice for the woodstock fest. I realy only remeber the sly set had them I guess I will have to go back and see if there where other bands using them. As for Boris I did realize that they where using stephen sunns I thought that they used there own gear. As for Joe I saw him twice in my life, the first time I saw him he had all kinds of different sunn cabs I remember seeing a folded horn don't know the size but it was huge he ran his synth through that and he ran his coliesums through some huge sunn cabs I want to say he might of had a 4x15 my memory is not serving me to well right now. the second time I saw him he only had the coliseums, needless to say his back line was much smaller and not as loud.
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....a concert slave at 0:11?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8f3Kpqi0Uw
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Model T @ 1:57... I wasn't sure at first, but after zooming in and checking out the panel, it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7miRCLeFSJo