The sunn Forum

Sunn Musical Equipment => DIY => Topic started by: Greg_M on October 14, 2010, 11:36:50 am

Title: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 14, 2010, 11:36:50 am: As of this morning.....

State of the cabinet construction

(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/cab%20construction%205.jpg)

The other side

(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/cab%20construction%204.jpg)

:-)
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: D.M.N. on October 14, 2010, 02:55:58 pm: Isn't building cabinets fun? Can't wait to see the finished product!
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: ROCKETBRO2 on October 14, 2010, 03:00:28 pm: What are the dimensions?
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 14, 2010, 03:04:58 pm: 40x24x15
This is what I was getting measurements for on the thread here.....

http://sunn.ampage.org/sdp/index.php/topic,5547.0.html

I'm having a pretty good time DMN :-)
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: HRobert on October 15, 2010, 06:07:50 pm: Greg,

I hope you're planning on puting in reinforcing cleats in the corners.

Rob
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 15, 2010, 06:17:38 pm: The pictures only show progress as of yesterday morning
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Walt-Dogg on October 18, 2010, 11:05:05 pm: Is that a sink you have it standing on?
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 19, 2010, 07:36:58 am: It is my atomic record cleaning system. :-D

(It is housed in a roll-away utility sink)
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 21, 2010, 10:38:12 am: As of 10/21/10

It's a little foggy out this morning

Got the bracing in, next will be to cut the fronts and back to fit

This side has been sanded. I added some non standard bracing to the horn for greater structural strength
(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/cab%20construction%207.jpg)

This side hasn't been sanded
(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/cab%20construction%206.jpg)

Time to order the router bit
:-)
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Jeff Troy on October 21, 2010, 11:15:58 am: Hi, Greg,

Learned the following lesson from my floor monitor project:

Looking at the corner pieces, I guessed at either a 1/4-inch or 3/8-inch router bit for rounding the cabinet edges with the router bit.

I cut one cabinet's edges with the 3/8-inch bit, but while still uncovered, it looked too round, so I used the 1/4-inch bit for the remaining three enclosures.

Turns out that a 3/8-inch bit makes a better fit for the stock (Conrad nickel or original chrome) corner pieces after the cabinets are covered.

Do as you think best, but I like 3/8 inches for the outer edges, and 1/4 inch for the inside (facing the grilles) edges that do not receive corner pieces.

Best bet is to cut a scrap, lay a small patch of covering over it and check the fit. Then you can make a knowledgeable decision.

Always remember my life's lesson: "If it wasn't for f**king up, there'd be no up at all!"

Your project looks great. Nice work, my friend. Wish I had the time and space to do a pair of 2000S cabinets, but then I'd have to find and buy a good head - and figure out why I needed anything more than my 200S/415M in a 15 x 15-foot basement!

Warmest regards,
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 21, 2010, 11:57:05 am: The rounded corners are/were a concern.
The only place I even saw corners with anything less than 0.44" radius (about 7/16") was at "Vibroworld" and I sent them a note but have never heard back.
So I bought the .044" corners from another place and here's why.....

The original Sunn tolex is not available and neither is the original Sunn grill cloth. While being a disappointment, it's also somewhat liberating.
I also have a '66 Super Reverb so I thought, "why not make a family?"

So although it's a Sunn 200S cabinet design, the tolex will be like my SR and so will the corners and probably so will the grill.
I sent a pic of the SR grill cloth to Wendell and they were able to immediately identify it. Supposedly I have a sample on the way.

I guess the demand for 5/16" corners is just not good enough for someone to supply them.
Bummer
:-(
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: biltmore on October 22, 2010, 07:12:39 am: Greg_M, have you contacted Conrad to see if he has any Grill Cloth or Tolex available? I swear that he had some available just recently.
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 22, 2010, 07:37:36 am: Once I found out the corners are essentially not available, I started thinking along different lines.
I'd rather make it "different" than a poor copy.
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: wildbill96 on October 22, 2010, 11:05:27 am: FYI, I tried to contact Vibroworld myself a while back too with the same result. They still have a website up but I think they're out of business.

As for cabinet hardware...check out Flip Tops and American Handle Company. Both sell different types of corners. American Handle is the original supplier of the handles that were used on the vintage Sunn cabinets and heads so you may want to go there any way for some spiffy new handles that look like the old ones.

Wendell is your best choice for speaker grill fabric and I believe that they were the original supplier to Sunn although they may no longer not make the exact type of fabric that was used back in the day. I purchased fabric from them and was very pleased with the match to my old ratty original grills in my speaker cabinets.

As for tolex...if you Google "Sunn Rough Tolex" you'll find a couple of places that sell what they claim is a match. I have not purchased any of this material since I have had decent success just scrubbing the original tolex with hot soapy water and a brush after a good presoak with a multisurface citrus spray cleaner. A little touch up here and there with a black paint pen and a little black RTV for larger spots and you'll be surprised how good it can look with the decades of cigarette smoke removed.

I realize that this cleaning process won't work for your current, new-build project but I found that it works very well for a restoration project.
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 22, 2010, 11:33:13 am: I tried that Simple Green on the Fender grill cloth and it was amazing. The brown nicotine just rolled off. First I went to Home Depot and got some big plastic "For Sale" signs and pushed them in between the grill cloth and the speaker board as I had heard the black will run from the wood.

After that I did the entire amp and it looks almost new. I'm shocked at how well that Simple Green stuff worked.

I did contact Wendells again about the samples. Apparently they are lost and so he is sending me # FN-5660-21 and the Fender grill samples again.

I already ordered the tolex so that will be that.

I'll check out Flip Tops and American Handle Co
Thanks
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: wildbill96 on October 22, 2010, 12:05:59 pm: I think you'll be very happy with the FN-5660-21 fabric from Wendell but take a look at the sample swatch and judge for yourself. That is the type that I ordered and it matched the vintage grills on my 412s cabinets nearly perfectly without looking brand new. I found it not very easy to work with though since keeping the square pattern of the cloth squared up with the grill frame is difficult. In hindsight I probably should have taken them to a professional upholsterer.
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: D.M.N. on October 22, 2010, 07:09:26 pm: Quote from: Greg_M on October 22, 2010, 07:37:36 am
Once I found out the corners are essentially not available, I started thinking along different lines.
I'd rather make it "different" than a poor copy.

I'm pretty sure that Conrad has the corners in both 2 and 3 pronged versions
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: madaradio on October 22, 2010, 10:44:12 pm: Quote from: biltmore on October 22, 2010, 07:12:39 am
Greg_M, have you contacted Conrad to see if he has any Grill Cloth or Tolex available? I swear that he had some available just recently.

he has both. I placed an order from him a few months ago.
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: CLD on October 23, 2010, 08:16:24 am: Conrad has nice tolex, cloth and plenty of hardware.
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 23, 2010, 08:25:57 am: I'll give him a call on Monday
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 29, 2010, 11:35:56 am: This weeks progress.......

Got the fronts cut out and put in and painted. You can just barely see the T-nuts. I wound up with an inch between the baffle board and the front edge. It doesn't look like that much because I taped off the front and brought the black paint out a ways to cover what the tolex won't cover.

(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/cab%20construction%208.jpg)

Got the back cut and fit. Drilled the c'sunk screw holes. Drilled the hole for the jack to go into. I got the braces put on, but you can't see them. It's just leaning up against the front in this pic

(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/cab%20construction%209.jpg)

Got ahold of Conrad and ordered up some corners. They might be here today
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 29, 2010, 04:14:11 pm: The corners did come today from Conrad. I checked them with my radius gauges and they are dead nuts 5/16".
So I ordered a 5/16 router bit.

Life is good
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: EdBass on October 30, 2010, 08:39:30 am: Are going to countersink the back mounting screws instead of using traditional trim washers, or are you going to countersink the trim washers?
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on October 31, 2010, 09:39:11 pm: I am using a trim washer that I used on the last couple of boxes that are themselves counter sunk. They provide a little trim but are sort of like a little funnel. The screw head sits down inside them. They are lower profile and are smaller in diameter. They keep the tolex/vinyl from twisting from the torque of the tightening screw.

They look like this

(http://www.bonaero.com/images/nas390.GIF)

I countersunk the back to accept the finish washers
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: CLD on November 01, 2010, 06:08:56 am: Nice touch!
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on February 21, 2011, 01:04:20 pm: I got tired of waiting for warmer weather, so I brought up the cabinet from the garage (much to my wife's horror) and yesterday we did the first step in putting on the Tolex

(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/tolex_cab.jpg)

The bottom is up and the seam will be on the left side.
So far so good

:-)
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: N2000s on February 21, 2011, 01:25:46 pm: Wow, that's looking great Greg. Nice work!
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: CLD on February 21, 2011, 03:05:13 pm: "We" did the first step in putting on the tolex?

Your wife helped? Wow, I am envious.
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on February 21, 2011, 04:24:15 pm: Yah, she helped once I got it across that I was as worried about the floor as she is.
She's a real trooper and she has learned to follow my lead (for the most part)
:-)
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on February 23, 2011, 05:33:25 pm: I worked a day on wrapping the Tolex in to the front and back and then spent a day on the corners.
Put on the wheels and handles and feet.
Tomorrow the carpet pad I'm using for lining the interior goes in. Might get the speakers in.

(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/cab_tolex.jpg)

Got to get some grill cloth and knobs
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: HRobert on February 23, 2011, 06:08:50 pm: Quote from: Greg_M on February 23, 2011, 05:33:25 pm
I worked a day on wrapping the Tolex in to the front and back and then spent a day on the corners.
Put on the wheels and handles and feet.
Tomorrow the carpet pad I'm using for lining the interior goes in. Might get the speakers in.

(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/cab_tolex.jpg)

Got to get some grill cloth and knobs
What did you finally decide to use for speakers? Did you find some K140's...or are you going to go completely original and load in some D140's. Personally....I prefer the K's over the D's.

Rob
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on February 23, 2011, 06:26:03 pm: Actually one of each. One D and one K. They both needed a re-cone badly. The D140 looked like it had been in a garbage dump and the K cone had separated from the surround and then been home repaired and the voice coil was rubbing.

They both have nice new everything and are coned as 140s

The guy at Around The Sound is a wizzard
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on March 17, 2011, 12:34:15 pm: Can someone with a 200S cabinet please measure the distance between the Sunn metal name tag plate and the edges of the grill?
Just distance from the plate to the top and the plate and the left side as you look at it from the front.
It looks like an inch or so

I've got the grill cloth now and am getting ready to cut out the grill cloth frame and want to be sure and leave that mounting area for the plate

Thanks
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Soundmasterg on March 19, 2011, 02:07:28 am: On my early 2000S cabinet, it is 3/4" from the top and 5/8" from the left side. I'd guess the 200S is the same probably. I need to talk to Conrad tomorrow...I can see if he remembers if you like?

Greg
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on March 19, 2011, 08:25:18 am: Sure, thanks
But what you have given me will probably be good as well

Thanks
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Soundmasterg on March 21, 2011, 09:10:55 pm: I forgot to ask Conrad when I talked to him, but you can probably tell by looking at pictures of the 200S and 2000S cabinets and comparing. I would guess it is the same myself.

Greg
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on March 22, 2011, 05:09:13 pm: Done (if there is such a thing as done)

(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/musicroom.jpg)

The boys relax in the music room

:-)
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: HRobert on March 22, 2011, 06:01:32 pm: Quote from: Greg_M on March 22, 2011, 05:09:13 pm
Done (if there is such a thing as done)

(http://www.muellersatomics.com/Sunn%20Amp/musicroom.jpg)

The boys relax in the music room

:-)

Greg, Fantastic job on the 200S. I'm not much of a guitar player. I play just enough to do some rhythm on some simple songs, but I do like nice guitars. Is that a Gibson Byrdland? Class Axe

Rob
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on March 22, 2011, 07:10:06 pm: It's a mid 70s L-5 Custom CES
It and the Super belonged to my stepfather who passed a few years back. I went through the Super and recapped and put in new pots and cleaned it.
He was a great guy and I'd rather he still had it and played it
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Oli on March 23, 2011, 04:20:36 am: Thump up! Great Job! I was watching this tropic and it was a pleasure to see the box "growing".
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on March 23, 2011, 09:42:35 am: Thanks Guys

I got much more from the project than a speaker box

:-)
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Johnny Guitar on March 27, 2011, 11:17:16 pm: Hello Greg,
I also enjoyed watching your project and it looks great!! Thanks for posting.
Johnny G
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: fithers on March 31, 2011, 03:00:01 pm: hey greg! my dad and I are building one right now and i'm wondering how much tolex i'm going to need. how much did you get?
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on March 31, 2011, 03:09:51 pm: I got 3 yds, 54" wide

I only wanted one seam (on the bottom)
There was enough to take the back section out if you ran the long dimension (of the back) parallel to the (sides) wrap around piece. Plus a chunk left over for "the future"

You want plenty of width for the sides. As careful as I was to get the tolex parallel with the sides it still wandered off by the time I went all the way around.
It's way easier to cut off the excess than to glue more on because you shorted yourself :-)

I'd cut it even wider if I were to do it again.
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: fithers on March 31, 2011, 03:28:14 pm: cool thanks man!
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: fithers on March 31, 2011, 03:30:06 pm: also, how did you handle the seam?
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: Greg_M on March 31, 2011, 03:41:46 pm: Since it was on the bottom I just did a lap seam, not a but seam. But since I was using casters I put the seam under caster mounting plates and had the plates run front to back. I used a new razor blade and a cutting board and a straight edge to make I nice straight, clean cut on the visible end.

I went pretty much by this tutorial
http://jam4jmessageboard.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=2378719 (http://jam4jmessageboard.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=2378719)

I used Tolex that I got from the author of the tutorial
http://www.speakerbuildersupply.com/servlet/the-39/black-Bronco-fdsh-Levant-tolex/Detail (http://www.speakerbuildersupply.com/servlet/the-39/black-Bronco-fdsh-Levant-tolex/Detail)

It matches perfectly with the 66 Fender Super Reverb.

I also have enough left over so that if I want to re-cover the 200s head, I have some.
Title: Re: My 200S Speaker Cabinet Construction Project
Post by: fithers on March 31, 2011, 04:10:26 pm: awesome thanks for the links!