The sunn Forum
Sunn Musical Equipment => DIY => Topic started by: z.eret on August 06, 2008, 11:58:21 am
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hello everyone, first thanks for reading.
I was wondering if anyone out there could help me with my idea.
I want to build from scratch a 2000s. I just need some help with the power and output transformer types, or if there still out there.
Mercury has the output, but no luck on the power side.
Would someone be willing to share some part #'s from there amp?
I have the schematic for it, but it doesn't give any part numbers or values on the parts.
Any help at all would be great.
zack
(chgo)
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I don't know of anyone who makes a power transformer for a 2000S. They would be quite expensive if you could find one. I believe Conrad was using Schumacher or Thoradson at the time, though I forget which. The number on the side of the transformer would tell you who the manufacturer was, though that doesn't help much since you can rest assured they don't make it now. If I remember I can look on my '68 2000S in the next couple days to see who made the power transformer, or perhaps someone else can look on theirs in the meantime?
You mainly need something that will give you the required voltages at the currents required with the UL taps also. Hammond may have something that will work, but you'll need the transformer specs first. I can see if Conrad remembers and if so, I'll post here.
Greg
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Hey Zack,
I'm rebuilding a 2000s so we're more or less in the same boat. Have a look at this guy's page: http://www.dezirae.com/dezzie/sunn/2000sPS.pdf
This should work if you want to substitute something ala Greg's advice. I personally have a bad transformer (or both) that a guy out in maine is looking at for me. He rewinds but I don't think he'll make you a transformer. I can ask him if he could clone it since he's already gonna have mine apart. BTW I ordered some gz34 rectifier tubes by mistake if you're gonna make the tube rectified version.
hope that helps,
Ryan
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Sorry to get your hopes up but my rewinding guy will not make a brand new one. If I were you I'd go with a replacement like the link.
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I'm not aware of a whole bunch of options when it comes to building a transformer from scratch. I have experience with Heyboer; they will make one, and they make exceptional trannies. They build all of the Reeves Amplification (and un-named other manufacturers) transformers to spec., and as I said, they make very nice pieces.
But... be sitting down when they give you a quote for a "one off"!
They are fairly reasonable considering the quality if you order 50 of them or so, but that’s a tall order unless someone wants to get into the 2000S cloning business.
http://heyboertransformers.com/
Of course there are also probably a myriad of Asian manufacturers that would be happy to custom build you a truck sized container of them for a ridiculously low price per piece. :wink:
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first off, thanks guys for all the replys and the help. I hope I can find the specs on the transformers.
Ryan.... what brand rectifier tubes did you order by mistake? IF i can get the transformers i need, I will need them.
Ryan.. also are you having both transformers rewound.?? if so I would be willing so somehow arrange Mercury electroics to make a clone of them.
I called them and taked to Doug Hutt there and he said he could do it. Didnt quote a price tho..
greg..... if you could get inside your amp or talk to someone that might know the specs that would be great.!
thanks again for everyones help.
Its cool to have people who still appriciate this old stuff
z
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Hi,
I know that http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/ offered me a 2000S transformator two years ago, they are in Worms, Germany and it maybe quite expencive for U to get it ... but U can drop them a mail, and ask them as they do buy a lot of stuff in the USA.
Cool idea, good luck with your project!
Oli
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Hey Z,
I bought some JJ gz34's by mistake. Good tubes so they're not going anywhere so let me know when you get that far. I suspect people won't be beating my door down so if I get the $20 or whatever I spent on them that would obviously be ideal. As far as the transformer I'd like to help but my guy said he doesn't do custom stuff and I suspect that mercury magnetics would need to open them up etc. I'm having them vacuum dipped and sealed so that kind of defeats the purpose. I also get the feeling that having mercury do a one of transformer would be ungoldy expensive. Their output clone was $400 last I checked so I suspect that its not worth it for time or money. Just to have mine evaluated and rewound I'm looking at 6-8 weeks (due to his back log) and I don't really want to have these floating around forever too. That said if you can think of something I'm open to helping. BTW I've got inside pics of the underside of the chassis. I took them to document where my rebuild started but I can send those to you once you get that far. It might be helpful to get an idea of the layout. Sunn stuff was never very neat or impressive (IMHO) like a marshall or hiwatt but it could help you get from the schematic to the finished product a little easier. What are you thinking of for a chassis/cabinet etc? What are the goals for your project: stay true to look and functionality, or just functionality? Where are you located?
Ryan
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I forgot to say too...if you can't find specs...which it can be hard with this stuff, you could always get with Conrad as a last ditch effort. Look at the headache I went through over the SS rectifier question. Some people on here are helpful but they're in the minority, and Conrad is busy but when he does respond he's usually helpful.
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Ryan....
hey man thanks for the help. I will take those JJ tubes from you, if I get that far with this.. you were asking on how I was gonna do this, I want to keep the amp true to form as I can, from the layout, chassis and cab. Those pics would be helpful. I am in chicago, what about yourself?
Also you sent me this link for the power transformer http://www.dezirae.com/dezzie/sunn/2000sPS.pdf. How is it different from the orignal one?
Do you have any idea? Will it function properly? I will get the output from mercury, its $400 big ones, but what are you gonna do, complaining when it comes to this vintage stuff gets you nowhere. I taked to that guy Doug there and he said He thinks the power transfrormer that was in the Model T is the same as the one in the 2000s, but isnt 100% on it. ...Any ideas on this?
BTW who is the guy conrad you guys are taking about on here? I am quite new..?? does he know these amps really well?
ed bass.... thanks for the link. I did send out an email to them, I will let you know what becomes of it.
oli... Did you buy a output or power transformer from http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/. IF you remember what was the part #??
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Sounds good Z. I guess we both win if I can get rid of those rectifier tubes. I bought them before I had recieved my amp. I just assumed (stupid haha) that it would be the tube rectifier. But like I said let me know when you get that far. I'm in Minneapolis but I'm actually in Chicago a few times a year at least. I've got a sister in north chicago and its a hell of a blues town so I go down to jam etc. or visit. As a matter of fact I'm going to chicago today (for the weekend). Glad to hear you're trying to keep it original. As much as its only about the sound the looks just add that certain something. To be honest I'm not sure how different the transformer in the link is. I sent that as more of a proof of concept. Anyone can tell you that you need to get a transformer that provides the appropriate voltages but you're not really any better off than you were. So the best I can say (since its not my site) is that someone made that configuration work. I guess its not my type of solution because the transformers are a huge part of the sound of any amp so I would want damn near original. In leu of pitching mine I'm rewinding them. I figure that's the best solution if you've got something to work with. I think your attitude with the vintage stuff is about right...bitching aint gonna help haha. But the question does respectfully arrise...why not just buy a beater 2000s and fix it? At least then you've got something to work with. Doing the DIY (is awesome and I do that stuff to) is gonna always cost way more because its all one of. Sunn 2000s are available if you're patient. Just food for thought since they're only about $700 for a decent one. If you're talking $400 for just a transformer you're gonna be over 700 almost instantly. I generally reserve DIY projects for stuff that doesn't exist, not available, or just ridiculous priced. As far as the model T trans. I'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised...maybe you can beat it out of someone on the board. You'll probably have to ask 10 times hahah. Conrad is Conrad Sundholm...the sunn guy...he started the company. He's on here now and again but you can always contact him. Whether he gets back to you is open to debate but a nice guy all around.
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I talked to Conrad tonight and he doesn't have any specs around for the 2000S. When the amp was being made, he didn't do the engineering or documentation of the amp, though he was involved in the genesis and parts selection. They used Schumacher transformers, and he thinks that they asked Schumacher to clone a Dynaco transformer, which they did, but the iron in it wasn't as good as the Dynaco stuff.
Conrad suggested to try Hammond for the power transformer, which I also suggest. You can find out voltage info for the 2000S, add up currents, figure out voltage drops and rectifier conversion ratios and come up with what the transformer should be. If I was going to use it for bass, I would prefer solid state rectification and increased power supply filtering, but thats up to you.
Hope that helps.
Greg
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Hi,
sorry, I got no part # as the org. transformer was all right for me (I worried about the 50/60Hz change). You can drop them a mail and ask for the powertransformator for a 2000S or 350B.
I'm always interested in useful links, so I collected these:
http://www.vibroworld.com/parts/tech5.html#transformers , http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/transformers.asp?id=45008&s=Power , http://www.tubesandmore.com/
Hope you find something useful.
Greetings
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Here's a thread where I measured the voltages and resistance of a 2000S power transformer:
http://sunn.ampage.org/sdp/index.php/topic,3854.0.html
Mercury Magnetics makes (to order) a transformer set for the 2000S. The price isn't so bad if you can get the discount.
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Hello,
The 2000S IMHO IS THE FINEST BASS AMP OF ALL TIME. Mister you are undertaking a large task in building a 2000S from "scratch". Good Luck sourcing the parts. Here's a suggestion and DO NOT BE OFFENDED, Buy a 1973 first GENERATION MODEL T. No "mid" switch. It nails the 2000S sound. Plus it's 24" wide and sits nicely on all 3 of my Sunn 200S and 215S cabs, all with JBL K-140's of course! Take it easy and again good luck. i LOVE MY "t". Some Model T's on EvilBay and Craigslist. going rate 'bout $1200 YANKEE dollars. We are "rooting" for ya!
PEACE SUNN LOVERS
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Hi,
I have just boxed up a 606007 (1970?) 2000s Schumacher PT to send to Mercury Magnetics to "clone," so these will be available, shortly.
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Hi again, Paul@mercury magnetics just E-mailed me that the 2000s PT I sent him to "clone" is on its way back.
They now list it for $375.00.
Good luck.
John Nickerson
Old Harbor Co.
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I'm thinking about cloning a 2000S as well. Is $375 really the cheapest option for a PT? That's absurd.
This may be a dumb question, but can I just build it into a large breadboard? I'm not sure what to do about a chassis yet.
If anybody has pictures of the innards of the 2000S, i'd really appreciate anything I can look at.
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You need a chassis there to provide shielding if nothing else. There also has to be somewhere sturdy to mount the very heavy transformers. Sunn used the chassis as a ground point too. A breadboard isn't really adequate. Building a tube amp is not like building guitar pedals or something. Safety has to be the primary concern because 550v will kill you and cause all sorts of problems to your circuit and parts if that voltage somehow touches the wrong point. These things were built the way they were for a reason......don't change things unless you know why you are making the change and what the pros and cons are.
Greg
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Try the Triode store. http://store.triodestore.com/ They hae transformers that are very close to the original Dynaco.
Rob
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Just incase anyone is still wondering, I saw that Mercury Magnetics is now selling both 200s and 2000s output and power transformers. Expensive, but they are there. Sorry if this is old news.
http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/mainframe.htm (http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/mainframe.htm)
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Check with Parts-Express.com. They carry parts from Hammond Manufacturing. Their model 1650T PT, part number 122-155 is rated at 120 watts audio power. PE also carry the Hammond Mgf. HD steel chassis. Maybe there is something that you can use.
Prder a catalog from them...they have everything that you'd need to build an amp.
I bought a lot of parts from them for my Sentura II cabs that I built ( handles, casters, etc.) Give them a try.
Rob