The sunn Forum
Sunn Musical Equipment => Q & A => Topic started by: eclectiq on June 20, 2009, 04:51:39 pm
-
Hello All, I am new to the world of message boards. I have never posted anything, anywhere. I'm going to give it a shot. I've been reading (looking) and hoping to find some info on the Sonic 2 but am coming up short. A couple of quick questions for anyone that has the time and the answers.
Wattage?
Was (is) the Sonic 2 a guitar or bass amp? Or both? I use mine for guitar but was wondering how it was marketed. Late 60's, right?
Mine is SN # 2376. Is it worth any $$ to anyone but me?
Mine has a slight hum. Is that normal? Possible culprit?
I bought mine years ago...had many since, but keep coming back to it. It's rough. It's got a SS rectifier (sigh) and was wondering if it's worth the $$ to get it back to original? I'll probably do it anyway.
Thanks for your time folks, I appreciate any wisdom you can share.
Joe
-
There really isn't much info on the Sonic II. Apparently it was only available in 1967.
http://sunn.ampage.org/site/brochures/67brochure.jpg
Does your amp have a small piece of paper glued inside the cabinet on the left side as viewed from the back? It will have the tube layout. If it calls for KT88s and a 6AN8, it's a 60 watt. If it calls for EL34s and a 7199, it's a 40 watt. The three knob chassis is usually considered a bass amp because it's the same as a 200S but there's no reason not to use it for guitar if you like the sound. The Sonic II came with two JBL D130Fs. Not really a bass speaker, more of a full range speaker. Great for organ or guitar, ok for bass.
-
Thank you for the info and quick response.
Anyone else want to help the new "kid"?
Anyone out there have one of these? Anyone have any gutshots of an original? Are there any old threads for the Sonic 2 that I can't seem to find?
Is there any logical reason why I smile as I torture this poor amp, trying to conjure images from a back-alley behind a factory in Birmingham England on a rainy night?
Regards
-
I have a Sonic ll schematic from 11/67, and it's identical to the 200S and Sorado, with a pair of KT88's; the "big brother" of the Sonic l (Sonic l-40 w/ a D140F) which was an EL34 amp.
Another example of the amps being named for the combination of amp and speaker as was the Sunn practice in the 60's.
If it calls for KT88s and a 6AB8, it's a 60 watt. If it calls for EL34s and a 7199, it's a 40 watt. The three knob chassis is usually considered a bass amp because it's the same as a 200S but there's no reason not to use it for guitar if you like the sound.
So ecletiq, you have the probably the most common Sunn "amp" from that era with maybe the least common "badging"
Mine is SN # 2376. Is it worth any $$ to anyone but me?
Do you want to sell it? Post it in the classified section or put it on eBay, but be sure to mention it's identical to a 200S because more people are familiar with the 200S and they are generally considered to be excellent amps.
Mine has a slight hum. Is that normal? Possible culprit?
Could be a lot of things, but the most likely candidate would be the filter caps.
I bought mine years ago...
When were the electrolytics last replaced?
It's got a SS rectifier (sigh) and was wondering if it's worth the $$ to get it back to original? I'll probably do it anyway.
I can’t speculate on whether it’s “worth” restoring to a tube rectifier, that’s a decision that only you can make, but if everything is there it’s not a big deal to switch it back.
It probably has a tighter bass and maybe 10-20 more watts with the SS rectifier though.
-
Thanks guys. The 200s reference is a huge help. There is so much more info available under that model name. I'll probably never sell it. As it is now I have really no money tied up in it...and haven't done anything to it in the 9 years that I've had it. Really, I just wanted to hear that it's considered a quality amp by the Sunn community before I spend any $$ getting it freshened up.
Thanks again for your time and insight.
-
i bought a brand new Sonic II from Manny's Music in NYC back in '68 and used it for bass. The D130's are no match for D140's, as I sold the head many moons ago and have a 2000S head with one 2-15 cab with D140's and the old Sonic II cab as well. I rarely run the D130's cab as it just doesn't move the air as the other cab does. I never considered the Sonic II head as having the punch and depth on the bottom end for playing bass live. It may have been the speakers more than the head though, as the 2000S doesn't lack for anything.
-
I never considered the Sonic II head as having the punch and depth on the bottom end for playing bass live. It may have been the speakers more than the head though, as the 2000S doesn't lack for anything.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that rather than the speakers, the main reason that the 2000S has more punch and depth on the bottom end is because it's twice the power of the Sonic ll. :wink:
-
So, the Sonic II (or any of the other badges that own the same circuit) is not the flagship of the fleet? Not generally considered the fat-bottom-bass-generating machine that gave Sunn it's reputation? And not really known as a guitar amp....Basically, no real interest to drive prices up? Something about all that kinda makes me like it even more. I know it's a quality build, I like the sound (Late model Gibson LP and/or 1972 Strat into 4X12 w/ Greenbacks). Like I said earlier, I'll probably put $$ into it and keep it to the grave. I play and don't have enough spare coin to "collect". I just wanted some info on what I've found to be a great, modestly (but loud) powered tube amp for guitar.
Regards
-
I just wanted some info on what I've found to be a great, modestly (but loud) powered tube amp for guitar.
Regards
I don't know where some of you guys play, I swear!! OK, in a world where there are an abundance of 60 - 100 watt guitar amps out there, I guess 40 watts would technically have to be called "moderately powered" I don't know about the Sonic II/ 200S as I honestly have never had the pleasure to play thru one, but I have a 40 watt Solarus that I used to gig with. Every place from little bar backrooms for private parties, Fire Halls & VFW's all the way to outside gigs at a Maryland State Park and I don't think I've had that Solarus Volume knob above 4 EVER. (Two different occasions by myself I kept cranking it up to try to overdrive the tubes to see what it sounded like and had it at about 7 before I couldn't stand any more and was afraid my ears would start bleeding, and still barely got any distortion at all).
So "modest power" ? Yeah I guess so, but.....GEESH!!
-
I have played the same size rooms that you mention. A friend of mine had the exact same Sonic II so I had both cabs laid over and both heads stacked on top with a Y cord to a Fender Precision. It rocked hard but my 2000S just blows that away with the one cab with D140's. EdBass is right that it is double the power but the richness of the sound is what I was looking for and found with the 2000S. I may have had it up to 4-5 and the whole house feels like it's coming down.....so I am happy now!
-
eclectiq, the Sonic II is not the flagship amp of the Sunn line, and neither are any of its clone brothers, like the 200S. That honor goes to the 2000S. But I wouldn't say that it won't give you the sound you're looking for. Remember, most regular guys couldn't afford the 2000S back in the day. I think Sunn's reputation was made as much on regular Joes playing through 200S amps as on John Entwistle playing through his 2000S rig. A 200S through its standard cabinet, loaded with two JBL D140 drivers, will produce much thunder.
-
Thanks Isaac, I figured as much. Again, the main reason I was fishing for info is that I basically have no money in the head. I wanted to know that when I put nearly 400 into a rebuild and tubes that I'd still be in the ballpark of it's actual worth. If I was going to be upside-down, I'd probably sell it and look for an identical, but nicer example. I like it and have found that when I get on a new amp-kick, it's not very long before I find myself trying to dial in the sound I get from my Sonic II. In my opinion, it's got the right guitar tone. I was actually a little surprised to learn that it was a bass amp. And to think, I would have passed it up if it was sitting on top of a bass cab when I found it.
Regards
-
eclectiq, the Sonic II is not the flagship amp of the Sunn line, and neither are any of its clone brothers, like the 200S. That honor goes to the 2000S. But I wouldn't say that it won't give you the sound you're looking for. Remember, most regular guys couldn't afford the 2000S back in the day. I think Sunn's reputation was made as much on regular Joes playing through 200S amps as on John Entwistle playing through his 2000S rig. A 200S through its standard cabinet, loaded with two JBL D140 drivers, will produce much thunder.
+1
I think that the 200S and it's siblings are really the amp that made Sunn's reputation. As Isaac mentions, the big four output tube amps extremely were rare by comparison, pretty much signed pro players; a full 2000S rig was $2000 in 1969 dollars.
Not a whole bunch of those played bar gigs!
Besides; the "little" amps were good enough for Entwistle! :wink:
-
Of course, he later played through multiple coliseum amps with multiple 18"s and 4x12"s!
-
Of course, he later played through multiple coliseum amps with multiple 18"s and 4x12"s!
Let me fix that;
Besides; the "little" amps were good enough for Entwistle for a while! :wink:
-
I've read on an old thread that KT90s work well in this amp for guitar applications. Can anyone confirm or dismiss that? Currently it has RCA 6550s.
Thanks !!!
-
Hello again all. I've been enjoying my recently "freshened up" Sonic II. Restored back from SSR to TR and sounds great with my LP or Strat.
Something has been troubling me though. I got it back from the tech and the invoice reads (have patience with me please):
"Removed SS rectifiers and reinstalled 5AR4 tube, replaced a weak phase inverter tube, traced and repaired a defective ground connection which was causing the majority of the hum problem. Installed an additional filter cap on the preamp voltage tap to further reduce residual hum, cleaned and tightened all, thoroughly tested all functions"....
(this is where I get concerned)
..."FYI replacing the main filter caps on this unit will be arduous, mainly because the voltage of the existing caps is higher than most standard values. This means a redesign of the circuit to accommodate modern cap values will be needed. This, coupled with the original cap being a multi-section cap. All of this adds up to headache and expense. Luckily, your caps look good and will probably hold up for many years."
My question: Is this accurate , having to redesign the circuit and will that change the personality of this amp should it ever be needed? Or is that BS?
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond !!!
-
Hi there,you don't have to "re design" the power supply,just replace the caps and add some power sharing resistors on them,worst case scenario.Just my opinion,that's all,Mel.
-
The guy has probably been reading my posts here about the subject, but doesn't have an understanding of whats involved. It isn't that hard to go with discrete caps arranged in series instead of the can cap. I just did it last week on a 200S for a guy. To overhaul the whole amp, clean sockets and pots, test all tubes, replace what needed to be replaced, and add the series-connected caps took all of 6 hours, and would have taken less if I didn't have to troubleshoot why a cap exploded. (It happened due to a bad parallel 220k resistor for the series connected caps) If you wanted to do it in a simpler way, you could always go with one of the SDS boards which replace the can cap with a board already wired up with the caps. For guitar, you probably wouldn't want to go with much larger filter cap values than what is stock, but to go with a higher voltage rating is certainly a good idea.
Greg
-
Was (is) the Sonic 2 a guitar or bass amp? Or both? I use mine for guitar but was wondering how it was marketed. Late 60's, right?
Joe
Joe,
I have a photocopy of the 67 Sunn brocheur, and from what I can see the Sonic II was the same as a 200S - with the exception of the speakers. The Sonic II appears to have the same cab as the 200S, but it lists 2 JBL D-130 speakers where as the 200S had 2 D-140's. It was marketed for keyboards and guitar. I'll try to scan the picture and post it. But since it'll be a scan of a copy, I'm not sure how it will come out.
-
I have played the same size rooms that you mention. A friend of mine had the exact same Sonic II so I had both cabs laid over and both heads stacked on top with a Y cord to a Fender Precision. It rocked hard but my 2000S just blows that away with the one cab with D140's. EdBass is right that it is double the power but the richness of the sound is what I was looking for and found with the 2000S. I may have had it up to 4-5 and the whole house feels like it's coming down.....so I am happy now!
For bass I agree whole-heartedly (actually for guitar too although I would miss the reverb and vibrato that my Solarus brings to the table, but then there's the 1200S for that). My point was just that for guitar, the 40 watt Sunn tube amps are MORE then adequate for getting the job done. Can you come up with a "better" rig for guitar? Of course. There will always be something better, especially when you start piggy-backing / mixing-matching/stereo-ing/etc. heads and speaker cabs. All I'm saying is that the 40 watt Solarus was perfectly capable of getting the job done in even the larger of the venues I mentioned.
-
On side note: I was happy to discover that although the original KT88s were swapped out some time ago what I have instead are two RCA-branded gray panel Tung Sol 6550s from 1971...and they still test strong :-D