The sunn Forum
Sunn Musical Equipment => Q & A => Topic started by: Duffy on November 18, 2010, 04:33:56 pm
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I just got a sunn sonic I, I need some info on it. sunn logo kinda pinkish with no pat indacator. numbers for controls are on the chassis face and not on the knobs could be 66 or67? It came with 6l6 pwr tubes, sounds weak and I am to understand this amp needs kt88's before I do that I need some input on this amp. also has the 7199 in the cicuit, Thanxs :?
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If the 7199 is original, the amp should have EL34s. Check the 12AX7. It's around front by the input jacks between the output transformer and the grill cloth panel. Someone may have subed a 12AT7 or 12AU7 in there.
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If the 7199 is original, the amp should have EL34s. Check the 12AX7. It's around front by the input jacks between the output transformer and the grill cloth panel. Someone may have subed a 12AT7 or 12AU7 in there.
Hi, it does have the 7199 and the pre tube is a 12ax7. so the 6l6s are incorrect? and the kt88s wont work? Then I will obtain correct tubes el34s for it also in looking at the site I realized it has a two prong cord and a polarity swtch. any advice
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Yeah, it should definitely have EL34's in it (It's a 40 watt amp). Those 6L6's have to go! The Sonic II is the one with KT88's in it.
I was looking into buying a Sonic I a while back, but it wasn't in the greatest condition and wasn't working at the time. I always wondered how those lower wattage Sunns sounded like.
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Yeah, it should definitely have EL34's in it (It's a 40 watt amp). Those 6L6's have to go! The Sonic II is the one with KT88's in it.
I was looking into buying a Sonic I a while back, but it wasn't in the greatest condition and wasn't working at the time. I always wondered how those lower wattage Sunns sounded like.
Well thanx for the info, el34 by jj on the way and the 3 prong cord is in and the polarity and death cap are out, telefunken ax7and jan 7199 in front now and Ill let you know how it sounds
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Yeah, it should definitely have EL34's in it (It's a 40 watt amp). Those 6L6's have to go! The Sonic II is the one with KT88's in it.
I was looking into buying a Sonic I a while back, but it wasn't in the greatest condition and wasn't working at the time. I always wondered how those lower wattage Sunns sounded like.
The later amps with the Schumacher transformers shared the Sonic 1 name but used 6550/KT88's and the 6AN8 phase inverter. I have one from 1970 that is this way. It was originally a Sonic 1, from the factory with the larger transformers intended for the 60 watt amps. The faceplate had everything sun bleached on it when I got it, so I relabelled it into a 200S because its the same amp and that was easier to do too. But anyway, not all Sonic 1's used the smaller transformers and EL34's. Sounds like this guy's did though.
Greg
P.S. A friend of mine locally has a very early Sunn with the smiley face logo and EL34's and it sounds great. It overdrives and crunches up a little earlier than the KT88 amps, but is very warm and balanced sounding.
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Yeah, it should definitely have EL34's in it (It's a 40 watt amp). Those 6L6's have to go! The Sonic II is the one with KT88's in it.
I was looking into buying a Sonic I a while back, but it wasn't in the greatest condition and wasn't working at the time. I always wondered how those lower wattage Sunns sounded like.
The later amps with the Schumacher transformers shared the Sonic 1 name but used 6550/KT88's and the 6AN8 phase inverter. I have one from 1970 that is this way. It was originally a Sonic 1, from the factory with the larger transformers intended for the 60 watt amps. The faceplate had everything sun bleached on it when I got it, so I relabelled it into a 200S because its the same amp and that was easier to do too. But anyway, not all Sonic 1's used the smaller transformers and EL34's. Sounds like this guy's did though.
Greg
P.S. A friend of mine locally has a very early Sunn with the smiley face logo and EL34's and it sounds great. It overdrives and crunches up a little earlier than the KT88 amps, but is very warm and balanced sounding.
You guys have been a great as I have now learned that it has the dynaco transformers in it,so early model with 7199 and el34s,thanx
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Ahhh, I was under the assumption that all Sonic I's were 40 watt models. Thanks G!
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Ahhh, I was under the assumption that all Sonic I's were 40 watt models. Thanks G!
Yah I used to be too until I got this one several years back. I think you could safely say all the Dynaco transformer Sonic 1's are the 40 watt model though.
The Dynaco transformer amps sound better overall anyway to my ears. A little less volume due to the lower voltages, and they sound sweeter as a result. The highs aren't quite so over the top....but that said, the later ones still sound good.....just not as good as the earlier ones. YMMV of course. The 60 watt Dynaco amps are more like 530v instead of the 560v on the plates of the Schumacher amps.
Greg
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Ahhh, I was under the assumption that all Sonic I's were 40 watt models. Thanks G!
Only the earlier ones. In high school I worked with a bass player that had a "67" Sonic I that he used for bass. It had a JBL D-140, but wasn't labled "SONIC I-40' like the later models. It also had the numbers on the faceplate and the pointer knob...where as my Sentura II had the numbered knobs. Anyway, the 40 watt Sonics sounded great.
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The Sonic I-40 isn't the same as the Sonic 1. They are both individual models in the Sunn amp line, and the earlier Sonic 1's are 40 watts while the later ones are 60 watts with the associated changes in tubes and transformers between them.
Greg
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For your info. I have finished the sunn sonic 1 upgrades. from stock: a three wire plug adding a solid ground.polarity switch removed from circuit. jjecc803 gold pin, jan 7199 and jjkt 77 replacing el34 tubes as this is used for lower volume bass gigs.enough level on the bias pot to bring the tubes into good operating range.I chose not to do the 6u8 from 7199 mod at this time and when the 7199 in it is done I will as the 7199 is at 50 dollars today and the jan 6u8 was 9 bucks and is standing by.rich, warm tube tone and good volume capable. Sweet! Is there a direct replacement for the large can cap?works and is the origanal, I would like to get a new one. and anyone know if there are murcury trannys for this or am I better to keep the dynacos that are in it?Thanks this site has helped a lot, Danny
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For your info. I have finished the sunn sonic 1 upgrades. from stock: a three wire plug adding a solid ground.polarity switch removed from circuit. jjecc803 gold pin, jan 7199 and jjkt 77 replacing el34 tubes as this is used for lower volume bass gigs.enough level on the bias pot to bring the tubes into good operating range.I chose not to do the 6u8 from 7199 mod at this time and when the 7199 in it is done I will as the 7199 is at 50 dollars today and the jan 6u8 was 9 bucks and is standing by.rich, warm tube tone and good volume capable. Sweet! Is there a direct replacement for the large can cap?works and is the origanal, I would like to get a new one. and anyone know if there are murcury trannys for this or am I better to keep the dynacos that are in it?Thanks this site has helped a lot, Danny
I'm sorry my friend, I am enjoying reading your posts and this thread in general, and I hate to be the forum police as I hate when people are, but please a space after a period - just super hard to read. Thanks...
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Thanks for the info, I will
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I just talked with mercury magnetics about transformers. He said that the dynaco units in these early sunns are absolutly prized and are top quality and suggested to not trade them for his awsome units they are that good. So yet one more wonderful old sunn "Bluesan" the pacific northwest,see ya!
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For your info. I have finished the sunn sonic 1 upgrades. from stock: a three wire plug adding a solid ground.polarity switch removed from circuit. jjecc803 gold pin, jan 7199 and jjkt 77 replacing el34 tubes as this is used for lower volume bass gigs.enough level on the bias pot to bring the tubes into good operating range.I chose not to do the 6u8 from 7199 mod at this time and when the 7199 in it is done I will as the 7199 is at 50 dollars today and the jan 6u8 was 9 bucks and is standing by.rich, warm tube tone and good volume capable. Sweet! Is there a direct replacement for the large can cap?works and is the origanal, I would like to get a new one. and anyone know if there are murcury trannys for this or am I better to keep the dynacos that are in it?Thanks this site has helped a lot, Danny
On the smiley face early Sunn amp that I fixed for my friend, he decided to go the 6U8 route and it sounds great and saves him a lot of money. For those who haven't heard about it, you can get an adaptor and the 6U8 tube to run in the existing socket from Antique Electronics Supply. Works great!
There is a direct replacement for the can cap, AES sells it, but if you do a search on the site here, you will see there are many problems with those cans, and with the idea of can caps in general. They were originally a way for manufactueres to save money and you can often save money by using discrete caps, or using one of the SDS boards from Triode Electronics. With your amp, since the voltages are lower, the higher voltages of today aren't as much of a concern, but I would still go the discrete cap route and leave the can cap in place for cosmetic reasons. If you use the amp for bass, using a larger value first couple caps and a solid state rectifier can improve the punch and tightness of the amp too, which is good for bass.
I would definitly keep the Dynaco transformers in the amp...they were VERY good transformers and still compare very well with today's stuff, and sound great. Mercury Magnetics stuff is good but WAY overpriced.
Greg
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The Sonic I-40 isn't the same as the Sonic 1. They are both individual models in the Sunn amp line, and the earlier Sonic 1's are 40 watts while the later ones are 60 watts with the associated changes in tubes and transformers between them.
Greg
Greg,
Not wanting to start a war or anything, but I beg to differ with you on that point. I have a photocopy of the 1967 Sunn catalog / brocheur. The heads for the Sonic I and Sonic I-40 are the same. The difference lies in the speaker cab. The description for the Sonic I list's it as having a JBL D-130-F speaker*. (Note the astrick). Below the description of the amp it says " * Available with 15-inch JBL D-140-F speaker as model Sonic I-40 at additional cost". Same head, same size cab, just ifferent JBL speaker.
Rob
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I concur with Rob. I remember them as different "packages" in the music store I worked in.
Johnny G.
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What I meant by saying that they weren't the same amp is that there were 40 watt Sunn amp models and 60 watt models, as far as the smaller amps go, I think we can all agree on that part right? Well the earlier Sonic amps were 40 watt models, and then at some point, possibly with the Schumacher transformer change, the Sonic 1 became a 60 watt amp, like the 1970 model that I have, and I 'think' the I-40 dissapeared from the line though I'd have to check up more on it to find out about the dates. I'm sure that the Sonic 1 and many other amps that Sunn sold were all very similar or identical to the 200S, as that seemed to be Conrad's business plan, to repackage stuff in many models that were all very similar to maximize profit. A great business strategy!
Greg
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What I meant by saying that they weren't the same amp is that there were 40 watt Sunn amp models and 60 watt models, as far as the smaller amps go, I think we can all agree on that part right? Well the earlier Sonic amps were 40 watt models, and then at some point, possibly with the Schumacher transformer change, the Sonic 1 became a 60 watt amp, like the 1970 model that I have, and I 'think' the I-40 dissapeared from the line though I'd have to check up more on it to find out about the dates. I'm sure that the Sonic 1 and many other amps that Sunn sold were all very similar or identical to the 200S, as that seemed to be Conrad's business plan, to repackage stuff in many models that were all very similar to maximize profit. A great business strategy!
Greg
Greg,
The 67 catalog also shows the Sonic II; a 60 watt head with a 200S cab loaded with JBL D-130-F speakers instead of D-140's. Other amps in the catalog are shown the same way. The Sentura I had 1 D-130-F and was 40 watts, the Sentura II had 2 D-130-F speakers and was a 60 watt head. Both were 7 knob amps with Trem. and Reverb. The Spectrum I was a 40 watt, 4 knob amp, with the same speaker cab as the Sentura I. The Spectrum II was the same 60 watt head as the 100S, but came with the same cab as the Sonic II ? STOP!! I may be mistaken. Maybe the Spectrum II had the same cab as the Sentura II. I will check this point out when I get home and correct the post if needed.
CORRECTION added 12/10/10 The 67 Spectrum II did have the same cab as the Sentura II; 2 x 15 JBL D-130-F speakers.
Rob.
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It's interesting that the Sonic 1 and 2 are in the 67 brochure. You assume that the Sonic 1 is 40w and the Sonic 2 is 60W although there are no specs in the brochure. They are not in the 68 catalog (at least the one in the Sunn Museum)but the Sonic 1-40 is in the 69 catalog as a 60W amp with a 24x24x15 D-140 cabinet. There may be more than one version of the 68 catalog, I only know about the one in the museum here. There was a brochure that came out early in 1970 that shows the Sonic 1-40 but when the Coliseum series came out later that year, the Sonic was gone.
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It's interesting that the Sonic 1 and 2 are in the 67 brochure. You assume that the Sonic 1 is 40w and the Sonic 2 is 60W although there are no specs in the brochure. They are not in the 68 catalog (at least the one in the Sunn Museum)but the Sonic 1-40 is in the 69 catalog as a 60W amp with a 24x24x15 D-140 cabinet. There may be more than one version of the 68 catalog, I only know about the one in the museum here. There was a brochure that came out early in 1970 that shows the Sonic 1-40 but when the Coliseum series came out later that year, the Sonic was gone.
Perhaps I can get a scan of what I have and post it here...might not be the best since it will be a copy of a copy, but will do the best I can
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Perhaps I can get a scan of what I have and post it here...might not be the best since it will be a copy of a copy, but will do the best I can
That would be great! If anybody else has something, PM me and I'll try to get it posted or at least included in the Catalog Thread.
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Loudthud. Here is a price list that I found. It gives information for the Coliseum and Studio PA systems, which could be added to your catalog thread, as well as prices for other Sunn amps. By looking at the list of amps, can you tell what year it's from?
Rob
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Perhaps I can get a scan of what I have and post it here...might not be the best since it will be a copy of a copy, but will do the best I can
That would be great! If anybody else has something, PM me and I'll try to get it posted or at least included in the Catalog Thread.
Here's another picture that I found showing the Coliseum PA system and the specs. Hopefully it can be enlarged enough to read the info.
Rob
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Yah, I think there might be a misconception by some people that the Sonic 1 was always a 40 watt amp and the Sonic 2 was a 60 watt one. Certainly in the Dynaco transformer years that was probably true, which would be when your '67 catalog was done. But later, they changed things up and the Sonic 1 was a 60 watt amp for sure. I've got one here from 1970 that I bought used. Conrad has seen and heard it, as has Isaac, and aside from some mods that I did to it since the front panel was all sun baked away, and some grounding and cap changes, it is completely stock, if rebuilt. I would theorize that the change probably came with the change to Schumacher transformers, but its hard to say. A friend used to have a Spectrum 2 that was mis-labelled as a Spectrum 1, and Conrad guessed it must have been a mistake at the factory. I'd ask him but I'm sure he doesn't remember all of the nitty gritty details about every little thing. Sunn was a large company back then...about 150+ employees.
Greg
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It's interesting that the Sonic 1 and 2 are in the 67 brochure. You assume that the Sonic 1 is 40w and the Sonic 2 is 60W although there are no specs in the brochure. They are not in the 68 catalog (at least the one in the Sunn Museum)but the Sonic 1-40 is in the 69 catalog as a 60W amp with a 24x24x15 D-140 cabinet. There may be more than one version of the 68 catalog, I only know about the one in the museum here. There was a brochure that came out early in 1970 that shows the Sonic 1-40 but when the Coliseum series came out later that year, the Sonic was gone.
If I'm in error regarding the 67 Sonic I, I apologize. However, there is a pattern in the naming of amps in the 67 catalog. All of the "I" amps - Sentura I, Spectrum I etc. - were 40 watt, and the "II" amps - Spectrum II, Sentura II - were 60 watt amps. So, I guess it would be safe the assume that the case was true of the Sonic amps. After that - 68, 69 70, etc. I'm not sure of the power ratings of the amps.
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Thats what I'm saying.....in '67 the amps with a 1 on the end were probably all 40 watt models, but in later years, they changed it, and I would guess it is probably around when the change was made to Schumacher transformers, but who knows for sure.
Greg