The sunn Forum
Sunn Musical Equipment => Q & A => Topic started by: mc2 on November 28, 2010, 03:13:24 pm
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I've sort of compared vintage SUNN to vintage Orange amps, in general, on some of the Brit amp forums when asked what SUNN bass amps sound like.
I realize that it's kind of an "apples & Oranges" (pun) comparison but I think the old Orange tube amps and overbuilt speaker bottoms had some commonality, at least on the bass amp end.
I'd recently picked up a couple of newer Orange bass heads and cabs to try and avoid hauling my cleaner vintage SUNN heads/cabs around to places I thought they might get abused or stolen. I don't really care if the newer Orange stuff gets hurt as it's easily replaceable.
The one thing I will say, off the bat...in using SUNN bass gear for decades, I only ONCE had an amp fail (a 2000S I had for years) and that turned out to be an easy fix. No other SUNN head or cab ever failed me.
Since buying an Orange AD200B and a Thunderverb 200....BOTH have failed while not even cranking them and simply practicing in my studio!!!! Some vintage Orange heads have proved a bit more reliable. But the new stuff sort of spooked me from this not so great initial experience. I finally just dropped them at my repair guy, after having them sit in a corner in disgust the last six months. I unpluged them and put a 200S and 2000S in their place.
Anyone else have any opinions on SUNN vs Orange?
That episode aside......I DO have a few cool old Orange bottoms. In particular, I have John McVie's old Orange Matamp bass bottoms from the original Peter Green Fleetwood Mac days!!! (I've long been a fan of the McVie/Fleetwood rhythm section) The cabs still have the original Celestion G15C's in them and sound killer. I got them from a guy who bought them directly from a Fleetwood Mac "Garage Sale" back in the 80s at the band's CA storage warehouse. He said there were four of them and he took the cleanest pair...actually had gotten them IN the original flight cases WITH "Fleetwood Mac" stenciled on them....had no room for them where he lived and left them at his parents' house...and the THREW THEM OUT because they were too big!!!! Duh!!
Oh well. (yes...another pun :)
So, these are among the first bass cabinets (if not THE first) ever made by Orange. The seller was in Hollywood and refused to ship, so I pulled in a favor and a couple of my friend's (both pro bassists) who went over to try them out/pick them up/ship them for me. They called me RAVING about the sound and actually were considering sampling the cabs before shipping them because they sound THAT different and great (low powered Celestions in a big, shallow Fender-ish cabinet.) All in all, it was a great score.
So, here's a look at them.
(http://home.earthlink.net/~mc2/images/OrMatMcVieCabsWeb.jpg)
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Orange < SUNN
but seriously.. I say SUNN amps + ORANGE cabs = heaven :mrgreen:
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New Orange amps are total crap.
/Thread
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Orange < SUNN
but seriously.. I say SUNN amps + ORANGE cabs = heaven :mrgreen:
concur! i have an orange 4X12 from 1973 w/ celestions V30s that is my go to for my favorite Model T. i do get comments about the beautifullness
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Orange just ain't what Orange was.
Unlike the sturdy hand wired tanks of old, the new AD200B is a "disposable" PCB amp, with tube sockets, jacks, etc. actually mounted ON circuit boards.
Not exactly the same durability of chassis mounted components, twist a tube too hard pulling it out, or accidentally smack a plugged in jack, and the circuit board could be toast.
(http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/EdBass/orange-ad200-mk3-002.jpg)
The only thing hand built or "boutique" about them nowadays is the $2400 price point. For value comparison, this is what a $2400 Reeves C225 looks like opened up.
(http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/EdBass/Reeves225GutShot.jpg)
We all know what an old Sunn looks like! :wink:
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Loving that Reeves pic! Back to HiWatt construction methods there! If I had $2400 spare laying around, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
greg
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Hi,
a good friend of mine uses an old mata amp for guitar, it sounds grally great. I think the new Orange amps & cabs sounds OK for guitar - you can get a better sound for less money but the character of the sound ist very orange - but the new Orange amps & cabs for bass are the latest crab I`ve ever heared in my life. Really disappointing. :-P
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New Orange amps are total crap.
/Thread
Seriously.
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that reeves pic! *love* not helpin me wanting to make the switch from sunn to hiwatt/reeves...
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I'll offer another opinion. I love the way the new Orange AD200 sounds. Specifically how it gradually breaks up as you turn up the gain. No sudden change from clean to dirty. And it's at a nice power point at a weight I can handle.
But I share Edbass's view on PCBs, so I ended up selling my stock version and buying a handwired version of the amp. At the time I was unaware of the Reeves. Perhaps I would have gone that way -- that Reeves sure looks like a beautiful piece of engineering. But mine cost less and I had a pretty good idea of what it would sound like. So not sure.
BTW - I still have a couple of early 60s Echolette amps. Among the first to use a pcb. They still work, but they sure look fragile as the circuit board material ages. At some point one will crack and that'll prolly be it for the amp. It's a "fingers-crossed' time when you change a tube.
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Actually. Any new tube amp is just total crap unless it's actually built with the right techniques and parts but end up running you thousands and thousands of dollars, more than any Sunn and only just as good.
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Hi there,I had one of those new Orange's on my bench awhile back,I've never seen such an unreliable amp,considering it's brand new.A lot of the connections are made with "clips" or slide on connectors,and little tiny computer type connectors,a guitar amp is the wrong place for those !! If another one comes along,I'm thinking of not working on it,too much grief,Mel.
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Re reading my post, it may seem as if I am anti PCB. Just to clarify, I have no problem with PCB construction per se; my post was directed specifically the construction methods (or maybe more accurately "construction shortcuts") used by the new Orange.
What really peeves me is the fact that Orange/Matamp was such a nice amp in the day coupled with the fact that the "new Orange" uses that heritage to peddle the "disposable" PCB AD200B for $2400 as if it were still a premium hand built piece rather than a cut corners, mass produced, assembly line amp.
I wouldn't get my panties so wadded up if the Orange were priced commiserate with a PCB Peavey VB2 or Traynor YBA200 (<$900), both of which are probably superior to the AD200B in construction (I haven't been inside either one) and IMO good values.
The extra $1500-$1600 more than the Peavey or Traynor is a lot of money for a logo plate and some orange tolex... :roll:
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Orange today is a pale comparison to what it used to be.
Their new line of amps (and for the past years) are expensive, shoddy, and unreliable. Just look at that PCB! I don't hate PCBs, but that one in the picture of the Orange is just a damn joke. They charge $2,000+ for that?! And don't even get me started on how crappy their cabs are these days.
I still think that the OR120 is the king of Orange amps, well that and the OR80.
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What do you want to know. I have both and both are bad ass.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1199.snc4/155100_10150097933252165_505002164_7854477_8009453_n.jpg)
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Yeah, the innards of an AD 200 M3 look like a NIC card or something!!
Too pricey new, but they sell used for $1400-1600 pretty consistently. That's what you actually pay.
But the AD 200 Mk 3 sounds good. At least to me. Uh, isn't that's what's important?
I don't want to lug an SVT. Nor do I have the opportunity any more to run a couple of 200s or 2000s heads loud enough to get the broken up sound I like. So the AD 200 is a pretty good choice.
Again, mine is totally rewired and just about every component was changed, but I liked the sound of the stock head i had first.
But who cares, really? Most folks in the audience don't notice the difference anyway.
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my next amp would be either a 70's Model T or Hiwatt Custom 100 DR-103...or a good vintage Orange'esque amp, Electric Amps!
just saw one DR-103 for 1200$ locally, looks mint! awesome deal, too bad I've got to old my pocket for a while... :roll:
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Just recently bought a Sunn Sonaro head, and I also own a Orange AD30HTC head which is a few years old. So between the two were looking at way more wattage cranked out by the Sonaro, for a third of what I paid for the AD30...
I need to test them a bit more fully but I can already hear the difference.
Hey doomedfuzz, I also play a Sheraton II, how do you find it?
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Just recently bought a Sunn Sonaro head, and I also own a Orange AD30HTC head which is a few years old. So between the two were looking at way more wattage cranked out by the Sonaro, for a third of what I paid for the AD30...
I need to test them a bit more fully but I can already hear the difference.
Hey doomedfuzz, I also play a Sheraton II, how do you find it?
I really am enjoying the Sheraton, doesn't get the live play like my Les Paul or Flying V do, but for sitting at home, its my go to guitar already. Sounds awesome through my Beta Lead combo. I think I'll put 57 Classics in it at some point, but considering I just ordered one of those new SG 60s Tribute guitars (with P90s), my funds will be a little low for a while.
After reading this thread, its funny - I think a lot of people have forgotten the reputation Orange HAD in the US at least for a long time after the 70s. And I should add, I've never had a problem with my 2007 Orange Rockerverb 100 other than I blew one pre amp tube and I play the shit out of it. In the 80s, much like with Sunn, you couldn't give an Orange away. I remember many a person calling them "junk." So a couple of points:
I get to hear a 76 OR120 every couple of weeks. Sounds awesome for sure - the other guitarist in my band has one. He also have a 1998 Matamp GTO120 and a 2006 Orange Rockerverb 100 (with KT88s). For you purist out there, his newer Orange with Mercury transformers (factory) sounds as good or better than almost any amp I've ever heard. Its different than the OR120, which needs to be slammed with a fuzz pedal to really get it growling, but sounds great none the less without the fuzz - the newer one has enough gain on tap to not need a fuzz pedal.
Its about the tone. My Orange is fuzzed out and heavy as hell sounding, I quite like it.