Author Topic: 200S musings.  (Read 3001 times)

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Offline Isaac

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200S musings.
« on: February 05, 2015, 10:18:49 pm »
Not long ago, I was at rehearsal. I'd brought my 200S along to play through my 200S bottom I keep at the studio. Imagine my distress when I noticed that the power tubes were red plating! I grabbed a screwdriver and cranked the bias up, which helped, but the plates were still glowing. I shut it down and used the Fender Bassman.

Finally got around to looking at the 200S a couple of days ago. Voltages all looked normal, compared to the voltages I measured last time I had it open. I looked at the schematic, but didn't see anything particularly out of line, except that all of the voltages were higher than on the schematic. That's to be expected, given today's higher line voltages and the mods I performed a few years ago, upgrading the power supply capacitors and replacing the rectifier tube with diodes.

That got me to thinking, though. The amp was originally designed to use KT88 power tubes. Later, Sunn went to 6550 tubes. That led me to take a look at the tube specs.

KT88 tubes have higher voltage specs than 6550's do. In fact, the maximum voltage for the KT88 plate is 800 volts, while for the 6550 it's 600V. With the mods, the plate voltage with the tubes removed is over 600V, and quite close to it even with the tubes in place. When I did the mods, I had KT88's in the amp. I pulled those when my Model T took a dive and one of the tubes broke. I replaced the KT88's in the 200S with some old 6550's I had laying around. So I brought home two of the KT88's and put them into the 200S. No red plates. Amp appears to be working fine.

Moral of the story? Sunn was running the 6550's pretty close to their max ratings even with lower line voltages and rectifier tubes. With rectifier tubes, I imagine that 6550's would still be fine. But if, like me, you opt for solid state rectification, KT88's are the only way to go.
Isaac

Offline Ryan Phelps

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Re: 200S musings.
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2015, 09:18:16 pm »
Thanks Issac! This is a good reminder for all of us trying to keep these wonderful old beasts running!

Offline Oli

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Re: 200S musings.
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 05:52:08 am »
+1, thanks a lot. I thought that the KT 88 and the 6550 were the same tubes...good to know!
SUNN Sorado - 1969 / SUNN 2000S - 1970 / SUNN Sorado  - 1971 / SUNN 350B - 1973 / SUNN Coliseum 880 - 1973 / SUNN Concert Bass - 1972 / SUNN Concert Bass - 1979 / 2x SUNN 215B - 1970/75 / SUNN/SAD 2000S cab

Offline Isaac

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Re: 200S musings.
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 09:50:27 am »
Typically they are drop-in replacements for each other, but no, they are not the same tube. When run at typical voltages, they can be switched out with nothing more than a bias check and adjustment, if necessary. But when they're run closer to their max ratings, well, I've seen what can happen!
Isaac

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: 200S musings.
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 07:44:50 pm »
Good to know Isaac! I have some vintage, used, unmatched GE 6550's in my 2000S and they are holding up fine so far, but that amp (early 2000S with Dynaco transformers) doesn't have as high of voltages as the 200S, and of course the later 200S with Schumacher transformers will have higher voltages than the earlier Dynaco transformer ones too. THe old 200S I had with the Schumachers was running about 560V B+ biased up to around 65% of the max dissipation, running blue glass JJ KT88's. Some earlier 200S's that I have seen with the Dynacos were closer to 520-530V when biased to the same level.

And really you know, who knows if today's tubes correlate with the old ratings of the vintage tubes. A lot of the manufacturers will just reuse the tube data sheet from a vintage tube for their new one, when the new one clearly can't hold a candle to the old ones. Today you have JJ, Chinese, and New Sensor KT88's. A slightly wider selection of 6550's out there......but I would bet they are all pretty similar within a brand to each other, and I doubt if any of today's KT88's could run for long at 800V on the plates. It is worth keeping that in mind when trying to get the new tubes to work well in older amps that ran at higher voltages.

Greg