Author Topic: Studio PA Fuse Problem--now with bonus grounding & filter cap questions  (Read 3289 times)

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Offline truth_hz

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So, I picked up this super-cool Studio PA head awhile back. Got through 2 good 3 hour practices with no issues. Later, after playing for a good 30 minutes, the fuse blew(during a gig no less). replaced it, blew again right away upon powerup. So, I get the thing home, and now it seems to blow the fuse randomly. sometimes its right away, sometimes I can play for 20-30 minutes.

I decided to pull the tubes, and try...Doesn't blow with the tubes pulled, so the tranny is OK. I put the tubes back in, and Boom, blown fuse...I did happen to notice a flash in the rectifier tube, when it blew. It happens to be a fairly new Sovtek 5ar4, so it shouldn't be the tube. I re-wired the AC when I got the amp, and the Filter caps were ok too. So, now I'm stumped.

Any ideas...?

SoundMasterG, I know you live close by me, have any idea, what's goin' on, or a recommendation for a tech in the SW PDX area?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 01:33:50 am by truth_hz »

Offline mckinnon audio

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Re: Studio PA Fuse Problem
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2008, 02:58:54 pm »
  Hi there,I'd say you've got a/some bad tubes or a bad plate res.,but I'd go with the tubes first.Replace the outputs and see what happens,good luck,Mel.

Offline truth_hz

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Re: Studio PA Fuse Problem
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2008, 03:28:05 pm »
thanks mel.

I did check all of the power supply resistors for drift, they were all good. but I was having some crackle & pops using the 1&2 inputs, so maybe there's a bad plate resistor in there after all.

I still need to pickup some extra tubes to check out that possibility as well.

edit:

pulled it open. Ra's and Rk's measure good. Hope it's something simple like the tubes.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 05:35:18 pm by truth_hz »

Offline Isaac

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Re: Studio PA Fuse Problem
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2008, 01:05:59 pm »
I'd suspect the power supply filter caps. What I've seen a few times in the past was that the cap would be fine at first, but be leaking a bit (electrically, that is). That would cause it to heat up, breaking down the electrolyte, or possibly causing a short between the plates, blowing the fuse. If the fuse was replaced immediately, it would blow right away, but, if the cap was allowed to cool, it would work again for a while. One way to check this is to pull all tubes except the rectifier tube. If the fuse doesn't blow with the rectifier pulled, but does with it in, then you've pretty much narrowed it down to that one tube, or the caps.
Isaac

Offline basiklybass

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Re: Studio PA Fuse Problem
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2008, 10:36:03 pm »
Just because you have a newer rectifier tube don't mean it ain't bad. I had a similar situation with my 200s. Pulled the EH rectifier, put in a JJ....and wish I had done that before. The JJ sounded much better...but then perhaps the EH was bad from the start.

Offline truth_hz

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Re: Studio PA Fuse Problem
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2008, 10:08:26 am »
just got in a new set of kt-88's and a new GZ34, from bob@eurotubes. Hoping to try 'em out later.

New Filter caps are on the way too.

Someone must've worked on this amp along the way. the input stages have cathode bypass caps, and the power supply looks like it was worked on too at some point....

here's how it was wired when I popped it open:



weird how 2 sections of the can cap are paralleled, and 1 section is unused. the final 2 caps in the HV rail are discrete.

Offline truth_hz

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Re: Studio PA Fuse Problem
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 11:58:10 pm »
got it fixed up today. replaced all the electros, and B+ resistors, and re-tubed & re-biased. sound good now, has more buzz than my sorado. I'll have to keep poking around to get rid of the extra noise. almost there...

Offline truth_hz

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well, I ended up rebuilding the PS but, the cap I'm using for the 2nd filter stage is still over-voltage, by about 75 volts. I'm wondering if I can use some mis-matched parts(just what I have on hand) to fix this up a bit.

like so...



electrically it should be the same as a 20uf cap... 22uf is 450V in series with a 220uf 100V cap to up the voltage handling. the 470k/100k resistive divider network should make sure that each cap doesn't exceed its voltage rating. I've seen this done before, and did it myself in the 1st filter cap position, but haven't tried it using 2 odd value caps/resistors.

I'm thinking that if it is a viable option, I can kill 2 birds with one stone and use the junction of those two resistors to elevate my heaters. I just want to bounce the idea off of someone else, and would love to avoid ordering mor parts, especially if I can use what I have.



secondly,

I've been poking around, and found a few ground loops, well 2 at least. one looks non-original(as I said, someone must have worked on this amp in the past :roll:). but the other looks original to the amp. I'll try to describe it, but my head is spinning trying to modernize this sucker, while also uncovering some previous shoddy work.

so...4 input jacks...

all jacks are grounded at the chassis.

jack 3 has another wire coming from the grounded ring to another grounded lug of a terminal strip which seemed odd to me, though the wire wrap is there so it looks original.

compounding this all is the fact the V1 & V2 cathode resistors and bypass caps use the input jack rings as a grounding point.

sheesh.

if you read all that, thanks. and thanks to those who have offered me good suggestions for my earlier problems.





Offline truth_hz

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figured I'd post an update since I've gotten so many views. I ended up replacing all the plate resistors, as well as rebuilding the sections around v3 which were really messed up. wrong values, and blatant mis-wires. v3b was missing it's 4.7k split cathode resistor, altogether, so it was grounded after the 1k, which also changed the volume control wiring. it also had a 3n9 cap from plate to cathode for some unknown reason, as well as a funky value 66k plate resistor. so i rebuilt it using stock values (from the coliseum schematic).

v3a was also set up a bit different: Rp-100k Rk-1.5k bypassed with a 10uf cap. I left this one alone, though i might change it back to original.

i also redid the phase inverter resistors, as the values were nowhere near matched at 54k and 49k.

clipped out the ground loops surrounding the mic inputs. gee, its fun to fix someone's mess :|

So, now the thing is finally back to (mostly) original, and I think I've found all the mis-wires, and mistakes. Just trying to sort the buzz I'm getting. I'm going to go back and re-twist the filament wiring, as it's a bit loose on the transformer lead side. Jeff Brown @ Leighton Audio here in town suggested clipping the filament CT and just using a hum-balance pot. I may try elevating the heaters instead. Heck, I'm still not sure if its heater hum yet. ahh well, more to putz with.