Author Topic: Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T  (Read 5581 times)

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Offline Hanged-Man

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Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T
« on: August 24, 2012, 06:02:29 am »
Essentially I'd like to run my Sunn Concert Lead into my Sunn Model T via the fx send (adding in some necessary and unnecessary effects into the mix along the way).

The setup would go something like: Warlock NTB -> Noise Gate -> Bloody Mary OD -> Sunn Concert Lead channel 2 -> FX send -> Damnation OD -> 10 Band EQ -> Black Finger Compressor -> Sunn Model T Dual-channel input -> Line out -> WHAT CABINET SHOULD I USE!?

My questions are:
1) Does running the preamp of one amp into the other increase impedance?
2) Will running the preamp of the concert lead cause any problems with its power amp since it will all be plugged in but the FX return will not be used?
3) The model T has a switchable impedance (2, 4, 8, 16). Which would be the best level (paired with matching speakers of course) for optimum low end punch and crunch with this particular set of amplifiers (if anyone knows)?

If anyone has any suggestions about this setup (don't ask about the gain or I will kill you); answers to questions, or suggestions for cabinet/speaker size/brand (I know these originally were made for use with with 6x12 cabs which seem like they would take some of the oink out of the sound) a response will be greatly appreciated.

Offline EdBass

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Re: Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2012, 06:45:53 am »
Welcome to the forum!

In response to your questions;

1) Increase the impedance of what?
2) No
3) It's not a tone control.
All the output impedance switch does is match as closely as possible the impedance of the output stage to the nominal impedance of the load you have it hooked up to.
So... Use the impedance that most closely matched the nominal impedance of the load you have it hooked up to.

You should poke around using the search feature here. If you spend some time here reading, you will probably get a better handle on how these amps actually work.

Offline Isaac

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Re: Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 09:04:12 am »
The Model T was not "originally made for use with 6x12 cabs", although the 612S was an option. Most folks who bought them got them with two 412S cabinets. Guitarist in my band got his with two 410S cabinets.
Isaac

Offline stanner

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Re: Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2012, 12:43:19 pm »
mpressor -> Sunn Model T Dual-channel input -> Line out -> WHAT CABINET SHOULD I USE!?



what are you doing w/ Line Out on the T?
AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER

Offline Hanged-Man

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Re: Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2012, 04:25:10 pm »
I was under the impression that if you run a rig with more or less ohms (such as 8 ohm speakers vs 16) it can effect tone or volume...? Also, Line out is a typo, its a speaker out, i was just up late. I Just want to know about some good cabs to use possibly,if theres a better spot for my compression and what the recommended setup would be for something like this. Playing noise essentially, but I want to avoid too much buzz. The sunn 612s I have is right with the bass but I have a x-looped Marshall 1960b that gets better highs, only the low end is a big fart on those.  I'd like something with a shitload of speaker output and a relatively clean response for a cab, Brighter and hotter than the sunn 612s  stock speakers.

Maybe this is the wrong place and or question.

And, yes I tried, without luck to search for it, but your search engine is... not good.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 01:07:22 am by Hanged-Man »

Offline EdBass

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Re: Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2012, 11:31:18 am »
Transistor amp outputs are usually regulated by the impedance of their load; a 16 ohm load will only allow the amp to develop about 50% - 60% of the power it will make with an 8 ohm load, which will only develop about 50% -60% of the power that the amp will produce at 4 ohms, and so on.
Tube amps use a transformer to match the load with whatever impedance range the output stage is comfortable operating in, which is why they generally have multiple and switchable taps; to facilitate impedance matching with a variety of cabinets with a variety of impedances.
This is the reason that output transformers exist; it isn't a case of "low end punch and crunch" or any other tonal inflection, it doesn't care what you have in front of the amplifier’s output stage.
Theoretically all of the output taps will put out an identical signal at any impedance, and that signal will be transparent from at least 20 hz - 20Khz. That's pretty much the goal of designing an audio transformer.
However in actuality there are variations from "transparent" and output transformers do generally “color” the signal to some degree, often limiting bass response because of a lack of mass. There is also occasionally slight variations between the different taps themselves, but the purpose of the impedance selector is NOT to provide different tonal options. Its sole function is to keep the output stage performing safely and as it was designed to perform. 
Sunns have huge iron and huge bass response, and are by comparison very hi-fi in their performance. This is probably why Sunns have always been, and seem to remain popular with bass players.

I’m not exactly sure what you are talking about, but I’ll try to “get it”. I don’t really understand your tonal descriptions of the various cabinets; and what exactly is an “xlooped-ed Marshall 1960b”?
In all honesty your post reads like just a bunch of buzz words and hyperbole to me, but I admit I don’t know much about the “noise” genre of music so maybe I’m just unenlightened.
I do know this though; NO ONE knows what sounds good to you. Asking for cab advice in a forum probably won’t get you a lot of useful information in your quest for your ultimate “noise” rig; you will probably need to do a little trial and error.

While I can’t personally imagine the rig you describe sounding like anything but atonal crap, maybe that’s your goal tonally. To each his own, and you may well think that my rigs sound like ass. C’est la vie.
Anyway, from my perspective I don’t see anything wrong with your signal chain, if I felt compelled to add a comp to that odd collection of components I’d put it at the end as you describe.

It’s not “my” search engine, just like it’s not “my” forum. I wouldn’t know where to start with building and maintaining an internet forum. That said, I’ve never had any trouble finding what I’m looking for using this site’s search function, and haven’t heard any complaints from others.
How would you improve it?

Offline Isaac

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Re: Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2012, 09:44:06 am »
I was under the impression that if you run a rig with more or less ohms (such as 8 ohm speakers vs 16) it can effect tone or volume...?
I've done that, accidentally and as an experiment. I can't hear any difference. Best to match the impedance as closely as possible.
Isaac

Offline Hanged-Man

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Re: Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2012, 12:59:20 am »
Yes I understand I need the selector to be at the same setting as the rating for the cab I am using. I wasn't talking about mixing settings, just using differently rated cabs with similar speakers, you answered that portion extremely well.  X-looping or x-wiring refers to this: http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh105/evilsaint2020/Marshall%201960B%20cabinet%20X%20pattern%20modify/?action=view&current=IMG_0981.jpg which is not the factory speaker/wiring pattern.

As for the search engine, I guess I just wish I could search each individual forum for my topic, not the whole site.
 Because the words "sunn model t" and "sunn concert lead" add up to kind of a whole lot of results that don't deal at-all with what I'm asking.




Offline EdBass

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Re: Silverface Sunn Concert Lead into '74 Sunn Model T
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2012, 07:04:49 am »
Yes I understand I need the selector to be at the same setting as the rating for the cab I am using. I wasn't talking about mixing settings, just using differently rated cabs with similar speakers

You got me again. I have no idea what you mean by that statement, give me an example of what cab with what other cab, and what drivers they are loaded with.


It's hard to tell from the picture, but it just looks to be a regular Marshall stereo cab running mismatched drivers wired corner to corner instead of left and right.
Why would you want to wire your cab that way; what is supposed to be the advantage?

You CAN search individual forums, just click on "advanced search" and scroll down a little.
Since this is a Sunn enthusiasts forum, searching for "sunn model t" and "sunn concert lead" are obviously going to get a whole BUNCH of hits. Try getting more specific, try using "impedance" or "wiring" or something else like that.

So, how about a picture of your awesome rig?