Model T red vs. silver

[colinofsmoke]

Hey all, new here.  came in here just to find this info, but a couple different methods of search got me nowhere.  I'm sure there's already a thread on this, so if you know where it is, point me in that direction, please! 

been considering a Model T forever, finally had the chance to play one yesterday.  gotta say, not what I expected, way brighter and gain-ier than I thought.  anyway, it was a silverknob/no midrange selector version.  So, can anyone tell me how this version differs from the red knob version in tone?  what's the deal with the mid selector? 

also, i was playing at a guitar store, so obviously i couldn't really crank a 120 watt amp, but it seemed like the amp sounded better with lower input volume and higher master.  agree?  seemed a little transistor-y or fizzy with high input volume and low-ish master.  dif between pre-amp gain and power-amp crunch, i guess. 


cheers, and thanks for the help

[colinofsmoke]

actually I dug a little deeper, and combined with what I already knew, here's how I understand it:


First gen are silver with no mid switch.
There were some transitional amps that were silver with mid switches, seemingly around 74. 
2nd gen have the new logo with red, and red knobs, and the mid switch. 
there is a tonal difference between the first gen and the other two versions.
there is not a tonal difference between the transitional amps and the full 2nd gen amps. 

The colloquial knowledge on forums is that 1st gen are preferable.  My question is why?  can anyone explain the diff in tone, or is it just the classic "first version is better" mentality? 

[stanner]

fwiw-i have all 3 versions yer talking-for me and the music i play-they are interchangeable-i don't use most of the knobs. don't know what kind of music you play but here is my friend demoing both gens of T's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbnyXFb0gOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI25pLvPW1U&feature=relmfu

http://stanosaur.com/

[colinofsmoke]

yeah, i mean obviously that first vid is the sound i have in my head when I think of this amp, the dead on Sunn O))) sound.  not trying to go for that sound so dead on, I'm planning on picking up a Model T or a Sound City 120 or maybe this Simms Watts 100 I played and running it in stereo with my VHT Deliverance 60 (altho I may have to trade it up to a 120 to keep up with the sunn/sound city/simms/whatever i end up with). the one I played yesterday was a first gen, it was just so much brighter than that sound in the video/all the records I've heard.  The Simms I played was a lot closer when pushed, but had literally no breakup at all until it was at 100% full volume, at which point it sounded AMAZING. 

do wish yr friend would post a vid without the RAT.  I'm really trying to steer clear of pedals other than maybe a boost, which i would like to avoid itself. 

as far as style, I'm playing doomish stuff but with a bit more of a modern sound, some pinch harmonics, occasional chugging, etc.  More like Asunder without the Explosions in the Sky-sounding elements.  or a slower Tombs.  or a much slower/more dynamic Weekend Nachos.  but I get a lot of bite and cut from my VHT, I'm looking for a darker head to pair it with. 

:requisite complaint about Sunn O))) driving up the prices on these amps here:   :eyeroll emoticon at self:

[Isaac]

The most obvious difference, to me, is that, in an unmodified 2G, there is always some mid boost. You can verify this by putting the midrange control to 0, then switching the selector switch to different frequencies. It changes the tone.

An odd thing about the 2G is that, as you increase the master volume, the volume increases up to about 8, then decreases from 8 to 10. I have no idea why Sunn did that.

The other difference is in the action of the bass and treble controls. 1G amps have traditional boost-only controls, whereas 2G amps have Baxandall tone controls that boost and cut the bass and treble frequencies.

[colinofsmoke]

interesting.  I like alot of mids, so that's not necessarily a problem.  not sure about the cutting frequencies thing though.  so, from 8 to 10, does the tone or voicing change? 

[Isaac]

Not that I recall. It just gets quieter. I can't test it, because mine doesn't do that anymore.

As far as cutting frequencies, think of it like this. On a regular amp, if you have too much bass, about all you can do is crank up the treble (or mids, if you have a mid control). With a boost/cut control, you can turn down the bass. It gives you more flexibility.