Author Topic: Beta Bass: Output Problems, Mod Ideas, and Questions  (Read 5391 times)

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Offline bammalam

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Beta Bass: Output Problems, Mod Ideas, and Questions
« on: April 07, 2013, 07:56:12 pm »
Hi all,

With the input from forum members here, I bit the bullet and went with a Beta Bass over the Beta Lead I had previously.  Pretty pleased with the decision, and enjoyed the Bass enough to get another one when I saw it for sale at $100 for a 1x15. 

At that price point, I expected to make some repairs.  I'm pretty comfortable with doing necessary troubleshooting and fixes when things go wrong, and they did.



Here's a transformer shot from the new amp.  As you can expect, it's not sounding its best, so I went to see about getting a replacement transformer.  While searching for specs on the transformer, I came across this post:

Hello:
 That amp used the 20-0135 powerboard, same as the Beta amps. 100w @4ohms. Hot rodable to 300w @ 2 ohms with just a few mods.
(Transformer, Filter caps, Fuses, heatsink, fan)

I'm very interested in finding more info about this.  Google doesn't give much in the way of results, so I figured I'd ask.  Anyone know either a resource to get the particulars for the mods, or a source for a replacement transformer?  Preferably the former!


Offline loudthud

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Re: Beta Bass: Output Problems, Mod Ideas, and Questions
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 09:36:15 pm »
There are no such mods. Just strip the power amp out of the chassis and build your own power amp. What makes you think the power transformer is bad?

Offline bammalam

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Re: Beta Bass: Output Problems, Mod Ideas, and Questions
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 10:09:08 pm »
I was starting to think there might not be any mods after not finding any info mentioned anywhere else.  The transformer smells faintly of burning plastic, and the looks of the blistering was causing me to think it was insulation from between the plates.  It doesn't reek of it, though.  I'm really new to working on amps; most of the stuff I've worked with is less complex (like building simple synthesizers and effects pedals), so I'll give a rundown of the problems:

When buying the amp, the seller said his friends had blown a fuse after playing with a bass, guitar, and mic all in.  Every knob was at 10, so I wasn't surprised.  I had replaced the fuse, which blew instantly (accidentally replaced with a 1.5amp fuse), so I used the fuse from my other Bass (2.5 amp; I believe I should be using a 6amp fuse, correct?). 

The amp powered up, and was a good deal louder than it should have been at 3 (even taking into account how loud these normally are), with buzzing that wasn't due to distortion or the speaker being damaged.  It was definitely a grating, bad kind of bad sound.  After a couple of minutes, the volume dropped down to a level where I heard the strings from my bass over the speaker (from roughly 2 feet away from the amp).  The volume spiked back up after another couple of minutes, and this happened again a few times over the course of my testing, until I powered it back off.

I turned the EQ on my bass to noon across the board, then dropped the bass and treble sections a fair degree.  I tried this fully on the neck pickup, the bridge, and 50/50.  This is an active EQ, and I have had no issues using it with my other Bass.  The buzzing mostly subsided, but continued if I used a more aggressive attack.  After this, I powered the amp down and gave a look over the innards. 

I saw no bulging or leaking capacitors, lifted traces, scorch marks, or anything else.  The internal fuses are fine, as well.  I haven't started checking things out with the multimeter yet, but plan to start tracing things soon.  Any ideas?

Offline Isaac

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Re: Beta Bass: Output Problems, Mod Ideas, and Questions
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2013, 02:56:50 am »
My first thought is power supply capacitors.

Is the problem with the preamp or power amp? Test this by using the preamp out and power amp in jacks. Taking the preamp out into another power amp, does it work properly? With a plug in the power amp in jack, does the power amp make noise? Running another preamp into it, does it operate properly?

If the problem is in the preamp, is the amp noisy with all controls at zero? If not, is it noisy with the controls turned up, but the input shorted?
Isaac

Offline bammalam

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Re: Beta Bass: Output Problems, Mod Ideas, and Questions
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 11:47:32 pm »
My first thought is power supply capacitors.

Is the problem with the preamp or power amp? Test this by using the preamp out and power amp in jacks. Taking the preamp out into another power amp, does it work properly?

Well, I hooked it up again today on channel B, and there was immediately a loud, feedback-like hum at around a 9.5 volume level.   This was 0 for the volume, and all other settings roughly at 2.  I powered off the amp and ran a 3' cable from the master send to the return of a tested and working amp. 

I plugged each amp in after verifying that there was no response from the Beta when attempting to power it on while disconnected from the mains, during which, the slave amp was plugged in and powered on.  Playability seemed much better (but still erratic in volume and bad distortion) on B for a short time (A was still terribly noisy, though without the feedback occurring).  I started to slowly turn up the drive, with one hand doing a hammeron at the 21st fret and letting it ring to listen to the decay, edging the drive up before repeating, going about  a half-grade at a time.     When I reached 6, as soon as I struck string, the feedback began slowly and increasing in volume as the note decayed.  It was a markedly different tone, my note being E, and the feedback being somewhere around an F#, closer  to G. 

I cut off the power amp, and the feedback continued at a lesser volume, until I killed the Beta.  I let them sit for a few minutes and powered the slave amp up, and verified that it was silent.  I powered the Beta back up, and as soon as the power button had been engaged, the feedback was back at the same level it was before I cut power to either amp.  It was as if I hadn't done anything at all when the sound had risen in the first place.     


With a plug in the power amp in jack, does the power amp make noise? Running another preamp into it, does it operate properly?

If the problem is in the preamp, is the amp noisy with all controls at zero? If not, is it noisy with the controls turned up, but the input shorted?

The distortion/static noise is present at all dials at 0, just much lower intensity.  At this point, I'm wondering if the preamp has a bad cap or two, and the master volume pot definitely needs replacing.  I'm thinking caps because of that damnable feedback, and particularly the fact that it doesn't have a bell-curve to the intensity; it just keeps climbing and climbing.  I also would've figured that tone would have dissipated, instead of still maintaining the same level prior to cutting power, though the amp was still connected to the mains. . . hmm.

The master volume feels like it was probably torqued really hard by someone or something.  When you turn the knob down to the point where it meets a normal feeling of resistance that occurs at the end of the range, the volume jumps from 0 to 10, as though the wiper jumped over and to the opposite end of the track.  Edging it back up roughly 1/16th of a grade produces a loud static crack and then jumps down to 0.  I was able to consistently reproduce that, at least.

I believe it is time to pull and recap the preamp section as soon as my components order comes in.  Are there any particular pots that are recommended to use with these amps, or should I just go with Alpha?  Also, any pointers of what I did that may have skewed my results would be great.  I didn't follow all of the troubleshooting steps above, mostly due to the fact that the feedback was making it difficult to be able to turn the amp on consistently without fear of speakerdeath.




 

Offline george

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Re: Beta Bass: Output Problems, Mod Ideas, and Questions
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 11:54:47 pm »
Measure the supply voltages on this amp with no load attached to the output. Start by disconnecting the secondary of the PT and checking this voltage - without the rest of the circuit attached. After verifying this voltage -connect the secondary and measure the voltage at the filter caps. You can check the +-15 supply voltages next. There was a Beta service manual on this site - download it and read it.

Offline Cuetek

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Re: Beta Bass: Output Problems, Mod Ideas, and Questions
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 07:36:42 pm »
I have looked carefully for any mention of a beta bass service manual and for the life of me, I cannot find it.  Any help on where it is located would be greatly appreciated.  My beta just lost about half it's output power and I'm majorly bummed. 

Incidentally, my Beta Bass behaved very much like bammalam describes his behaving above.  And my problem was two solder joints had come loose in a way that was not visible to the naked eye (had to use magnifying lenses to see it).  What you might do Bam is open the amp case up and while playing, tap on the bigger components (caps and power resistors). 

My current problem my be related to a hot transistor (Q7 it looks like).  It never felt hot before now.  Anyway, the 411 on the service manual sure would be a boon to my outlook.  Thanks