Author Topic: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem  (Read 6107 times)

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Offline engineco16

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New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« on: April 16, 2023, 03:19:58 pm »
I'm new to the group. I've had my Sunn Beta Lead since 1978 and I recently started playing again. I've been building a new pedalboard and the other day I had the amp on a clean setting and I was getting a little breaking up, this is where I screw up. So I decided to check the 45 year old speaker for any resistance and my finger goes thru the paper. Not the end of the world so I bought two news Celestion Seventy 80 8 ohm speakers, awesome! Not so much, I clean everything up, put the amp back into its enclosure, connect the speakers, no sound. I tried everything I could think of, nothing, but the speakers work when I plugged them into another amp. So I'm lost right now, can I connect alligator clips to an output jack and connect another speaker, or how can I tell if the amp is working. Thanks in advance.

Offline loudthud

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2023, 07:18:48 pm »
On the back of your amp, find a jack marked "Power Amp Line In". Plug you guitar in there. You should get some low level sound through the speakers if they are properly connected to the amp. There are two more jacks marked "From Accessory". Those should work the same. These jacks have switch contacts that send the signal through when nothing is plugged in. The contacts become corroded when not used. Inserting a plug several times will usually "wake up" or refresh the switch contacts. A small amount of contact cleaner could be used, but you would have to open the amp to apply it properly.

To avoid this problem you would need short patch cables like the ones used on a pedal board and connect from the "To Accessory" to the "From Accessory" jacks or from the "Master Line Out" to the "Power Amp Line In" jacks.

Offline engineco16

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2023, 01:41:24 pm »
Tried what you said, nothing. I literally took the old speakers out, with the power off and put the new ones right in. Six months ago when I pulled it out of the closet I totally went through the head and cleaned all connections and pots, much needed and it sounded much better. I plugged my the speakers into my VS265 and they worked fine and sounded so much better than the Marshall speakers in it.

I'm baffled. I took the amp out, looked inside and everything looks fine, clean, nothing burned, no smells, no loose wires. Everything looks fine from the outside. I got this amp and my Gibson "The Paul" for my 16th birthday/Xmas, I still have both and now that I'm into playing again it means a lot to have this amp working. Thanks for the help so far.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2023, 02:41:29 pm by engineco16 »

Offline Isaac

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2023, 11:47:25 am »
Here's what I think I'd do.

You know that the speakers work. You have another amp on hand.

I'd start by running a cord from the MASTER LINE OUT to your other amp. Use a line in if the other amp has one, but the regular input is okay, too. Just make sure it's turned down, because, if this works, you'll be putting in a pretty hot signal. If the preamp is good, then you'll get sound from the other amp. Might be distorted, but that's from the hot input signal overloading the input. Don't worry about that, at least not at this point.

If that doesn't work, then do the same thing with the individual channel LINE OUTs.

If those all work, then you know the preamp is not the problem. You already know that it's not the speakers, so that leaves the power amp and interconnecting wiring. Never forget that it might just be a cord!

Loudthud suggested plugging your guitar into the POWER AMP LINE IN. I've tried that before and got nothing, even on known good amps. Might be that your guitar doesn't have a strong enough signal to drive the power amp to an audible level. If you know that you're getting a good signal from the MASTER LINE OUT, then running a short cord from that to the POWER AMP LINE IN gives you a good signal into the power amp. Thud suggested that, but I'm not clear from your answer whether or not you tried it. If you have another, known good amp with a line out, go from that line out to the Beta's POWER AMP IN. That's to prove that the problem is in the power amp.

Doing all that should tell you where the problem is. Once you know that, you'll have to decide how to proceed. If you have the technical skills, you might be able to fix it yourself. Otherwise, you'd have to take it to a tech. Only you can decide whether or not that's worth the cost.
Isaac

Offline Isaac

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Isaac

Offline engineco16

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2023, 03:53:05 pm »
Just real quick, I'm looking at it right now. I double checked that all the jacks are clean. I then plugged it in normal again, had to try, nothing. Then I plugged my guitar into the Power Line In, no sound, but when I turned it off I got the infamous Sunn speaker pop. I'll try running it into the other amps clean channel. Thanks again for the help.

Offline engineco16

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2023, 04:21:52 pm »
This might help: https://www.audioservicemanuals.com/s/sunn/sunn-beta/5017163-sunn-beta-partial-sm

I tried everything you said and no sounds anywhere, anyway, just the 'pop' when turning it off. I don't think I'm a good enough repair guy to tear it apart, and it's not cost effective to have someone to repair it. 

Offline engineco16

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2023, 04:34:50 pm »
Something else I thought of. The footswitch doesn't have a both channel switch anymore, been trying to find a replacement and I tried one, didn't work. Then I left the two wires disconnected, then reconnected them as they were since the 80s probably. Right now the footswitch is connected, when I power it on, guitar plugged into both channels and the switch goes between them. Now I disconnected the footswitch, unplugged the guitar and the B green channel is lit up but goes off after short time. If I plug the guitar into A channel slowly, the B channel lits up for 2 seconds then goes off. IDK if any of this means anything, but I think the amp has been that way forever.

Offline loudthud

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2023, 03:42:21 am »
A common problem with Beta amps is that either the Plus 15V or Minus 15V regulator transistors on the power amp PCB fail. Q1 is the Plus 15V regulator, Q11 is the minus 15V regulator.

Offline engineco16

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2023, 03:15:40 pm »
A common problem with Beta amps is that either the Plus 15V or Minus 15V regulator transistors on the power amp PCB fail. Q1 is the Plus 15V regulator, Q11 is the minus 15V regulator.

Well I'm no repair guy, but is this fixable on my end? I would really like to get this working, but if not I'll sell it as is and buy a Marshall DSL20. I really appreciate the help.

Offline loudthud

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2023, 06:09:10 pm »
Repair of a two layer printed circuit board takes considerable soldering and desoldering skill. Unless you have experience with such repairs, you will likely damage the circuit board just removing the failed components. Also, replacing components at random is never a good idea. Considering the age of Beta amps, a complete re-cap would be the best to insure the amp will operate reliably in the future.

Offline Isaac

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2023, 11:32:15 am »
A common problem with Beta amps is that either the Plus 15V or Minus 15V regulator transistors on the power amp PCB fail. Q1 is the Plus 15V regulator, Q11 is the minus 15V regulator.
That was my next thought. If neither the preamp nor the power amp work, that leads me to the power supply.
Isaac

Offline Isaac

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Re: New to the group, question about Beta Lead output problem
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2023, 11:33:40 am »
A common problem with Beta amps is that either the Plus 15V or Minus 15V regulator transistors on the power amp PCB fail. Q1 is the Plus 15V regulator, Q11 is the minus 15V regulator.

Well I'm no repair guy, but is this fixable on my end? I would really like to get this working, but if not I'll sell it as is and buy a Marshall DSL20. I really appreciate the help.
If you were in western Oregon, I'd be willing to take a shot at it.
Isaac