Author Topic: New Model T problem/fix/question...  (Read 2911 times)

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Offline Rickenbackerman

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New Model T problem/fix/question...
« on: January 14, 2003, 11:50:27 am »
Hey all, cool place!  I'm a bass player and mostly use SVT's, but sunns are cool and someday I'd love a Concert bass / 4x15 rig for funsies...   :D

Anyway, my guitar player has a new Model T.   One of the power tubes recently took a dump (intermittent heater, ever hear of that one before?  it would cycle on and off).   Can't blame that on the amp, blame that one on Boob Toobs...   The suspect tube also did the same thing in my tube tester, so it's definitely the tube itself.

Anyway, I installed a quad of JJ 6L6GCs and rebiased.  I had to turn both bias pots ALL THE WAY UP to get readings of 58 and 59 mV.  I didn't measure what the bias was with the old tubes, but both pots were just past their halfway marks.   Anybody hear of anything like this?  Is this just a function of the tube characteristics, or could there be something wrong with the bias supply?

rob

Offline Rocketboy

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New Model T problem/fix/question...
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2003, 12:07:01 am »
Only one way to find out.  Pull the chassis, remove the tubes, and measure the bias supply voltage at the tube sockets, then (if required) at the output of the bias filter, and then (if required) at the bias voltage tap of the power transformer.  Most likely an answer will present itself along the way.  The schematic diagram should have a value for negative bias voltage.  Of course, that will be a nominal value, as different tubes will require a different bias voltage.  But it should certainly be in the ball park. That's the only way I know how to check it.  Good luck.
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Offline hipfan

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New Model T problem/fix/question...
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2003, 06:55:38 am »
Ah, I've had the same experience with JJ 6L6GC's. I don't think there's anything wrong with your bandmate's amp. The JJ's generally run much "softer" than other 6L6GC's. I bought a quad from a local tube shop, and tried them in several amps. In all but one of the amps I could NOT get the bias up high enough using the amp's trim pot. They now sit in my spare tube bag as, well, spares.

If I were you, I would see if I could trade-in the JJ's you bought for a quad with a harder bias rating. In fact, get the hardest set that they have. The JJ's are good tubes and it is worth it to try to find the right set. It that's not an available option, get a set of Svetlanas or NOS 7581A's, both of which should bias up just fine.

Oh, and by the way, I have my Model T's bias set at 80 mA per pair of tubes, instead of the factory setting of 60 mA. This is still under 70% of maximum allowable plate dissipation for 6L6GC's and improves the tone immensely - especially on the gain channel. Mine are Svetlanas. It is generally accepted in amp circles that Fender biases most of their amps "cold" to prevent increased tube failure rates. This is at the cost of tone.

Good luck with your friend's amp and tubes!
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Offline youDEVILyou

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New Model T problem/fix/question...
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2003, 11:11:09 am »
OH REALLY

i just might get mine jacked up then.


how much does this afect tube life?

Offline hipfan

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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2003, 11:35:49 am »
Honestly, it probably will shorten tube life a little. How much, I'm not sure. The high plate voltage on the T probably causes it to go through tubes pretty fast. Here's the way I look at it though - I bought the amp so that I could sound good, not so that I could preserve tubes. A couple extra months on a set of Svetlanas really does not mean that much when all is said and done.

By the way, I figured that bias setting by using a Weber Bias Rite, which told me that the plate voltage on the Sunn was around 495. Using the bias calculator on the Weber discussion pages, 70% plate dissipation turned out to be 42.4 mA per tube.  I figured that 40 mA per tube was not really, really hot, but it was a lot warmer than the rather chilly Fender factory setting.
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Offline Rickenbackerman

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New Model T problem/fix/question...
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2003, 12:33:18 pm »
hipfan - thanks a ton!   So if the static dissipation of a 6L6GC s 30W (or 32?), and plate voltage is 495V...   the factory setting of 60mA per side is running each tube at about 15W/50%.   Definitely low.

With the pots cranked all the way, I'm getting 58 and 59 mA per side, and I think (since he played it last nite and dug it) we'll leave it alone for now.  Next time I'll either get tubes that will pull more current, or get a quad of Svets.  Thanks again!
Rob

Offline hipfan

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New Model T problem/fix/question...
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2003, 08:15:45 am »
No problemo, r-b-man.  BTW, I have a quad of Valve Art KT66's on order with Lord Valve for the T (everyone needs a backup quad of power tubes, right? :D ).

Once I've had a chance to break them in, I'll give a report and compare/contrast with the Svets.
Sharks don't attack the Irish.
It's mostly Australians.