Author Topic: Concert Bass external transistors on rear  (Read 4744 times)

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Offline animosity^2

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« on: October 24, 2003, 07:43:10 pm »
this thing's a '77 Concert Bass, 400 watts...

anyone know the order and model numbers for these transistors?  All of mine were taken by previous owner and the scematic doesn't help me as I am a moron I guess.

And a picture of the power amp board, would like to tell if all connections are made correctly at each pin.

Anyone that can help, I'd be seriously endebted to you!

..tube

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2003, 09:55:39 am »
you'll find the transistor designations at the bottom of the schematic in a box notated as "general notes." if i get a chance, i'll pull the covers off an amp and get the device numbers for each specific transistor and their position on the rear apron. i have your email addy.

in preparation, go to www.mouser.com and bookmark the site. you can order the transistors from them. i use a concert lead and a concert slave in my bass rig (i use some gritty distortion sometimes.) i don't have an actual concert bass right now so i can't give you a pic of the board connections.

best regards, tube

animosity

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2003, 11:47:58 am »
..tube

no "general notes" section on the schematics I have.
Seems everything I do have is missing something!

Thanks for the help!

Offline animosity^2

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2003, 11:03:46 pm »
my schematics show 5 of the 2N3055 transistors....
five slots on the back...

Are all 5 the 2N3055?  I can get those at Radio Shack for $2 each!

the schematics also show 3 of the 2N4304 (cannot find anywhere), 3 of the BC107B (found parts, do not look like the transistors that fit in the back), and 1 of the BC141C (cannot find either).

If the case is 5 of the 2N3055, I can get this thing going for a whopping $10.  Anyone know if this is correct?[/b]

..tube

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2003, 10:53:22 am »
if i recall correctly, the power outputs are matched pair pnp/ npn transistors in a push- pull configuration.

as usual, rat shack carries the cheap korean throw aways - steer clear of them. they sound horrible. usually, good amps have an auto biasing circuit to adjust idle (quiescent) current in the push- pull pair. class AB amps can develop absolutely huge notch distortion (at the point where the pnp transistor and the npn transistor are both in a conducting state slightly above and below the center of the + and - power supply rails.) i used to be so anal as to buy 20 sets of transistors and test them individually in an engineering test rig to obtain the closest match. i'd also match the caps and resistors in the biasing circuits and the diodes used in the auto bias line.

the techy members are probably gonna' kick my butt about my methods, but remember, i don't repair electronics for a living anymore. when i rebuild engines, i'm just as persnickity about balancing weights of moving parts and polishing surfaces.

2n3055s were very popular in high current servo controls and as power pass elements in the 70's and are still used in replacement automotive devices, hence their availability. the 3054 or 3056 devices are up to 20 times the cost of the npn mates.

there are a number of etail electronics suppliers, mouser was just a personal favorite.

best regards, tube

Offline animosity^2

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2003, 11:13:34 am »
..tube

So are all 5 the 2N3055's?  I figured rat shack carried parts that were not of the quality I was searching for, so I can get them online anywhere (thanks for suggesting mouser).

push-pull configuration?  Remeber, I am a technical idiot.  npn, pnp, it's all greek to me.  I hate to say it, but someone will have to spell it out for me in electronics moron terms.

I think I may have gotten in waaaay over my head in trying to find out what to replace in those slots on the back!  darn my luck

..tube

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2003, 10:06:04 pm »
under the black covers on the rear apron heat sink, there are 5 2n3055 transistors that plug into transistor sockets. to change them out, just stick new 2n3055 transistors in. they will only fit one way because the collector and base leads are mounted off center. when you mount them, use a mica insulator with thermal compound on both sides of the insulator. make sure that you draw the screws down with even pressure on both ends.

 the output transistors are transformer coupled with fixed bias and global feedback. it's built more like a dc servo drive than an audio amp!

 try the $2 specials at radio shack first in case there are other problems that wipe them out. that way you won't be out much.

 let us know how you make out.

 best regards, tube

Offline animosity^2

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2003, 10:50:10 am »
Had to visit 3 rat shacks just to find 5 of the 2N3055, placed them all in the rear apron, flipped on the power.....

NOTHING!  Nothing burned up, but I still have no sound.  I'm statring to hate solid state, and hate the guy that sold this to me!

Probably will buy a new head and use it with the sunn cab for this one, unless anyone knows how to properly test these things.  Any simple way of tracing the signal from input to output???  Remember, must be simple.

Anonymous

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2003, 10:57:54 am »
Well, you never said if the pilot lights up, or if you've checked the fuse.

You can eliminate the preamp being a problem by plugging the preamp out jack in back into the input of a known to be good amp.  Keep the volume low on the head when you do this.  If you get sound, you know the preamp is at least functioning.

It seems strange that someone would just remove the output transistors from an amp.  What else can you tell us?

Offline animosity^2

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2003, 07:07:38 pm »
Illuminated rocker powers up when switched on, there is no fuse but rather a small circuit breaker, and I tried to test the preamp board by going out of the preamp out slot...

No sound.  Can get static by playing with the cord a little bit.

First thing I'd like to check are the connections from the preamp board to the rest of the unit, and connections around the pins where the power amp input slot connects on the power amp board inside (as the were broken off and had to be reconnected).  Maybe the guy took the board out and wired it back in wrong, not sure...

I accidentally fried a rather expensive multimeter/milliammeter on it, so I can't trace the signal through the preamp board yet.

Anyone have pictures from the inside of one of these units?  That would help me eliminate the next easiest thing from this unit.

Offline animosity^2

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2003, 04:25:55 pm »


My camera can't take pictures worth a darn, so here is a diagram of how wires are hooked to the board.  If anyone can compare this to their working model, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I am almost certain that there are some wires crossed in there somewhere.

Anonymous

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Concert Bass external transistors on rear
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2003, 03:56:18 pm »
Found that I had a pair of crossed wires at the inputs, also was missing a piece of rubber between one of the inputs and the chassis.  2 problems down...

The wires coming from the "power amp in" input in the back are wired wrong to the power amp board, this much I can tell by common sense.... but then I am not great at these things so I still may be wrong.

If anyone can help me out with a picture of the power amp board, it would be very beneficial