200s vs. sorado

[sunnfever]

How do these two compare and differentiate from each other? Want one or the other(or both! hehe!) to pair with 200s cab. Is there really any major difference?(stock not modified)

[EdBass]

The difference is that one is a Sorado and one is a 200S.

Sunn amps of the 60's were marketed as a complete set with a specific head with a specific cabinet for a specific application, not ala carte as is usually the case today. Look at the price lists posted on this site, no "head only" pricing.

That's why some collectors feel it's important for to match heads and cabinets for the true tone and mojo of vintage Sunn gear.

The Sorado came with a 2X15 loaded with Sunn drivers, and the 200S came with a 2X15 loaded with JBL D140's and cost a couple of hundred more (in 60's dollars).

[sunnfever]

Right on. It wouldn't effect me in terms of a perfect match since the 2x15 cab I scored awhile back didn't have the JBL's(boo hoo ) anyway. In that case do you think a pair of the D140's that have been reconed by a quality tech are still going to maintain the same tonal vibe as originals? If I can't get  my hands on originals(which seem much harder to find then the amps themselves) can you reccomend a good modern speaker that might allow me to capture a little of the original flavor? I imagine that is subjective but I am open to suggestions.

[EdBass]

They don't make D140 kits anymore that I've heard of. I have some D140's re-coned as E140's and while they don't sound exactly like an original D140, they are still AlNiCo and pretty much retain the mojo. K140's are another, possibly even better, option as well.
Modern speakers are fine too, but you probably don't want to get too good of one. You are only dealing with 60 watts and you need an efficient (lower powered) driver to maximize your sound pressure levels. Some later model drivers will handle incredible wattage, but require a ton of juice just to get “in the zone”
I've spent too much time, and way too much money on speaker experiments using Sunn gear. I'll PM you one of my long winded dissertations on the differences I've found personally, it may add some insight into your situation.

[sunnfever]

Do you feel that modern drivers live up to that "made in the U.S.A " quality that the sunn amps have or have modern production methods made them not as desireable ,say,like amps that aren't point to point hand wired as in comparison to new amps. Subjective but all your opinions on such matters interest me.

[EdBass]

Do you feel that modern drivers live up to that "made in the U.S.A " quality that the sunn amps have or have modern production methods made them not as desireable ,say,like amps that aren't point to point hand wired as in comparison to new amps. Subjective but all your opinions on such matters interest me.

Amen to the "Subjective" part!

I think new speakers are great. I've been particularly impressed with new Eminence speakers, and based on my conversations with Eminence reps at NAMM, so are a whole bunch of amp manufacturers that Eminence makes OEM speakers for currently. They are very good at voicing speakers to spec. and emulating other, usually vintage, speaker designs as per modern amp manufacturer's specifications.

As far as point to point verses PCB construction, I think they both have their positive and negative attributes. I have a decent collection of both, and they all sound good. The point to point amps are all posses differing individual characteristics, as they are hand built and not nearly as uniform from one amp to another. They are generally made by different individuals with differing solder techniques, connecting wire lengths, component lead lengths, etc. This contributes to the mystique, but adds greatly to the cost of manufacturing. From a mass production standpoint, this is a horrible attribute, from a collector or purist standpoint; it’s the only generally the best way to go.
One of my hobbies (or per my wife, addictions) beside bass gear is old Porsche sports cars. They are also all hand built and like point to point amps, all of them are good, some exceptional, but also decidedly possessing different unique characteristic or “personalities”. On the other hand, I got my wife a Mini Cooper S last summer, and while it's identical to all the other Cooper S's out there (ala PCB amps), it's still a blast to tear ass around in!
PCB construction has its place as well. Some great sounding amps have been built, and are still being built with circuit boards. Just one example, and there are many (later Sunn solid state gear, etc…), is that I have some newer Ashdown gear that sounds incredible, in particular an ABM RPM pre-amp that is a marvelous piece of gear. I’ll probably have it forever. I prefer other power amps over the Ashdown APM, but the pre-amp is A+.

I'm sure most of the people in this forum have similar examples, it would be interesting to hear them.

In summary, its ALL good to somebody, so to each their own!

[sunnfever]

Great reply. Well rounded ideas on the subject from a person with obvious in depth knowledge on these subjects. I also surf and boards have been hand made from one material or another for a long time but now new materials and ways of turning out a surfboard are becoming widely available in the sport. I have ridden both and they both have good and bad attributes( still like fiberglass and foam though,the "older" way!  Anyway, since you mentioned it, have you used any sansamp products with your bass gear? I like their paradriver to "warm up" my coliseum 880 and the price is right without buying a high end preamp with tubes. Any thoughts? I'll write a separate thread about another subject that I am curious about, compreession and how it might be useful with our sunn gear live and studio. Oh, I just did. Any thoughts?

[sunnfever]

I meant that you mentioned preamps not the sansamp. I just use one like a preamp. Sorry for not being clear.