Author Topic: Tube or Solid State Rectifier?  (Read 14005 times)

0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline JoeArthur

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
Re: Tube or Solid State Rectifier?
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2007, 10:51:26 am »
So heres the real question.... we chase down these 40 year old amps and tubes and pay stupid money for the intrinsic value of having a good tone. I just got two 1960s Amperex GZ34 tubes recently so I know first hand. So why is it that we cant make tubes BETTER today than Telefunken and Marconi Osram did back in the day and at a decent price? What did they know that todays tube makers dont? Theres no disputing the differences in quality of tubes when comparing NOS and current production. They sure were relatively cheap when they originally made them then too.

Take yourself back to the early 1960s. Look inside a typical home and what would you see?

A television set, maybe a stereo, a table radio in the kitchen, maybe even a portable record player. Except for the portable record player, most of the electronic entertainment things still considered essential today. These things all required tubes to work. Look at the family car. If it had a radio, it more than likely required tubes as well.

Take a drive around the neighborhood and stop at most any corner store, be it a drug store, one of those 7-11s or supermarkets that were popping up almost everywhere, a mom and pop grocery (pretty much now extinct), and of course a "radio shack". Walk inside. 99 times out of ten, you would find a large piece of equipment with dials and numberous sockets - a tube tester.

Whenever one of those electronic entertainment things stopped working, the drill was to remove all of the tubes, take them to the closest tube tester, test all of them and buy new ones to replace the ones that didn't pass the test. Everybody did it.

If you had a guitar amp and it stopped working you went through the exact same drill. A tube was a tube was a tube - and no hype from tube gurus that you always needed to rebias when replacing tubes - there were no tube gurus.

Fast forward to today. How many people in your neighborhood are buying tubes? Those tube testers vanished during the 1970s never to be seen again. And unless someone is older than 35-40, or play guitar, they probably won't even be able to tell you what a tube is, much less care about buying them or their quality.

The point is that there is no real demand for tubes. For every person that wants or needs any, there are literally hundreds, maybe thousands of people that could care less. That's why the tube makers closed shop.

With the few tube makers we have today, and the limited consumer demand, there is nothing in terms of competition between those tube makers. Manufacturers only care about producing quality products when there is competition. Without competition keeping manufacturers on their toes, quality always slips.

It's not the lack of some secret knowledge lost in history. It's economics.

When Mike Matthews' factory in Russia closes, the production of 2/3 of new tubes available in the world will vanish. Quality will really fall out the bottom and prices will go sky high.


Offline Soundmasterg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 745
Re: Tube or Solid State Rectifier?
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2007, 04:06:29 pm »
Quote
When Mike Matthews' factory in Russia closes, the production of 2/3 of new tubes available in the world will vanish. Quality will really fall out the bottom and prices will go sky high.

Hopefully it never comes to that, but its probably wishful thinking. EI closed up shop last summer in Serbia...makes you wonder whos next?

I'd agree with Joe in that the quality issue is mostly economic. Since there is so little that uses tubes today, and so much of the population isn't aware or doesn't care about the benefits of tube audio, the incentive to make great quality stuff just isn't there. That is one big reason to buy new tubes instead of NOS, so we can support the existing companies that are left. As far as I know, there are two in Russia, one in the Slovak republic, and a couple in China, and thats mostly about it. Sure you hear all the stuff about Westinghouse being in the US and making a couple types again, and Groove Tubes with a couple models, but for the most part, those 3rd world companies are it.

Offline paulcampo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 34
Re: Tube or Solid State Rectifier?
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2007, 03:00:55 am »
Ei closed and Mike Matthews IS shutting down? I didnt hear anything of either...So who does that leave standing? Who is making these Tung Sol and Genelex 'reissue' tubes in Russia? I had no idea that Ei is now out of production. To me, they actually were producing some of the best 'new' 12AX7s that to me were about 80% of the Telefunken vibe...it WAS the original Telefunken equipment that the Ei factory had...so whos got that equipment now? Anyone on earth with the brains and $$$ would try to buy it and set up for Telefunken reissues...

Offline JoeArthur

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
Re: Tube or Solid State Rectifier?
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2007, 07:13:01 am »
Ei closed and Mike Matthews IS shutting down? I didnt hear anything of either...So who does that leave standing? Who is making these Tung Sol and Genelex 'reissue' tubes in Russia? I had no idea that Ei is now out of production. To me, they actually were producing some of the best 'new' 12AX7s that to me were about 80% of the Telefunken vibe...it WAS the original Telefunken equipment that the Ei factory had...so whos got that equipment now? Anyone on earth with the brains and $$$ would try to buy it and set up for Telefunken reissues...

It's not that Matthews IS shutting down, it may happen that he has no choice. Read about it here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13145804

Watch the video.

The equipment - that is another issue. I don't know but I would be really surprised if anyone was making tube building equipment. Eventually, whatever there is will wear out to the point of non-repair. Some of it could probably be kept going using the hopeless ones to scavenge spare parts for the others, but even that won't last forever.

Offline Soundmasterg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 745
Re: Tube or Solid State Rectifier?
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2007, 02:54:15 pm »
In New Sensor's latest newsletter to their dealers, it sounds like they have the issue resolved about the factory after getting the Russian government and Fender, Marhsall, US officials , etc,. involved. They don't appear to be worried about it naymore anyway.

I have no idea what has happened to EI's old Phillips equipment that they made the tubes with. Westinghouse was saying they bought it all but EI's former distributor, PM Electronics disagreed with that info. I suggested in a phone call earlier this year to New Sensor when I ordered some things that Mike Matthews get it and my rep thought it was a great idea, but who knows if anything has or will come of it. If EI started back up in some fashion and continued to make their 12AX7 but improved on the QC, they could steal the market away from just about everyone else just on the sound of that tube. Poor quality and microphonics problems were always the issue though.

Greg

Offline paulcampo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 34
Re: Tube or Solid State Rectifier?
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2007, 03:17:40 am »
So true about microphonics and those Ei's....I have a nice quad of smooth silver plates, but have had problems with a lot of the gray plates with microphonics...They really are about the closest thing to a Telefunken without the price...if you can get a few good ones they tend to last a while too. Didnt Aspen Pittman of Groove Tubes buy the rights to the 'RCA' logo and the original RCA tube manufacturing equipment a few years back? I was wondering if we were going to see an 'RCA 6L6GC blackplate reissue' or maybe 6V6GT smokeplate...Groove tubes did the G.E 6L6GC 'cleartop' reissue, but not being a 6L6 guy, I dont know what the quality was like...anyone try the Genelex KT88 reissue with good results?