Just got my 200 S how do i know if it ROCKS like it's sposed to?

[ryzingsunn]

Greetings,

I have been trying to get one of these amps for 2 years and finally got #2855 from the estate of Bob Kidd in Vancouver, B.C..  It seems like the tubes are kinda of burny looking, and it doesn't really start kickin until about "7" on the V knob.  Is that normal?  How easy or hard is it to blow one of these babys (I worry cause it's such an old soul).  The thing has been sitting for at least 10 years and I was hoping some knowledgeable sunn soul could tell me a few things and kind of show me the ropes.  Also I noticed right next to the serial number is a little smiling sun logo which I am not familiar with;  where can I get a graphic of this- just for fun.

Cheers

Pat Cronin

Red Lodge, Montana

[Oli]

Hi,

rocking at volume 7? There could be several things, but here are two to check (quickcheck):

- the temperature of of the trannis (be careful, the tubes should be hot- the powertrannie (left hand at back) should be max 40...50°C (273+40= 313°K))
- the big silver cab (the top must be flat, not popped out)
...and be shure that U use the right speaker out

Anyway, it's always an good idea to throw out the old cabs - it's not that expensive. Try out new power tubes aswell.

The sound of the "passive" tone controls on my Sorado (=200S) was a bit confusing for me in the beginning. I get more bass plus more distortion when I add more bass. I use V 6...7, T 1, B 3...4 depending on the box I use - The box does have a huge effect on the Tone & Volume of the amp! Do U mean this effekt by rocking or is it just the Volume U are looking for?

Your Sunn seems to be an very old one, as far as I know. The "smily Sunn" was just jused in the early years.

Greetings

Oliver

[mckinnon audio]

  Hi there,you've got a "smiley Sunn",hang onto it !!! It's going to need a set of tubes and caps.,(most likely).If you're not a tech,or don't have exp. with tube amps,be careful,there are some lethal voltages in there.If you can post some pics. of the amp,we can look for "problem areas" etc.Good score and good luck with your project,Mel.

[ryzingsunn]

Oli,

I am going out from "speaker" (at the back of the head).  There is also "external speaker" and the the left of those is an unmarked jack hole.  So cabs are plentyful?  Seems I had a time getting this one and the idea of "throwing it out" seems rather hideous.  They must get played out huh?  At what V should the rig be filling the room with that legendary tone.  It seems to have tone plus and even a 7-8 unbelievable clarity- I'm used tons of distortion at high volume with my ampeg.  Is there a secret fountainhead source for sunn gear or is it mostly ebay and Craigy's?

thanks for the reply

Pat

[ryzingsunn]

Mel,

Do I just go thru my local shop (old and established music store) or is there a top source you could recommend for tubes?  Yeah, that smiley graphic is cool but it's so small I'm going to need a magnifying glass to really appreciate it.

ha, cheers

Pat

[mckinnon audio]

  Hi Pat,tubes are like tires,you'll never get two people to agree on them and /or get the same results from them.You have lots of options,Groove Tubes,J.J.'s,NOS,military,EH,Svetlana and several more.I prefer the NOS or the military ones,(JAN) but look and shop around,you'll never know where good tubes will show up,flea markets,yard sales etc.Check the forum on this site regarding tube choice and you'll find lots of info.,pro/con,good/bad,etc.Hope this is of some help,good luck,Mel.

[EdBass]

I think ryzingsunn is talking about the serial number label having a tiny smiley face, not about a first generation split chassis amp. A lot of the single chassis amps have the smiley face on the label, but not on the front logo plate.

[ryzingsunn]

Yeah, exactly, a little smiley sun guy on the aluminum lable tab.  Does that demote my 200 S to wrealm of commonality- god, I hope not (kidding).  But I love that little logo- I want a BIG one!  Hey, I love the way this thing sounds- most amazing feedback in history- I'll be a star a year from now.  One thing though: This rig is the first amp I have ever been able to dime with complete clarity (maybe a little flutter) Is this normal- I mean to say that it seems it should have more V.  Would new tubes and caps give me a big boost or just a nominal bump in screamability?  Every nob and switch is definitely functional and I'm stoked but that full dime kind of nags me.

  ? ?  :  )

[Oli]

HI,

I think ryzingsunn is talking about the serial number label having a tiny smiley face, not about a first generation split chassis amp. A lot of the single chassis amps have the smiley face on the label, but not on the front logo plate.

The Sunn Amp photos I saw with the smiley alu tag on the back were <1969, my 1969 and 1971 Sorado f.e. got the "usual" Sicker on the back. But there is one thing they changed for sure: The buttons <1969 had just a pointer and the Numbers were printed on the amp.

So, what does your speaker out on the Amp say: 8 Ohm or 16 Ohm. I would check this first. The impedance matching is very importand for your Volume. If the "box resistance" is too low it might kill your amp as it is an tube amp.

Tubes: I played a Mesa Boogie 400 several years ago. The Sound was cool (as expected) but the Volume was far low. With new tubes it was fine- that was easy! But U got a 40 year old amp... changing the tubes and the cabs is really a good idea and they will chage & improve the sound and the Volume.

Sound: I run my Sorado (6550 Tubes) with a 4x10" SUNN/Fender box (8 Ohm). It takes exactly 20 to warm up the tubes. I know this time very well, cos that's the time I need for my first beer! Then I start of with V 5..6...(7), T:1, B:flat, starting to play and pushing the bass up till I like the sound, thats mostly on B: 3..4 (depending on the bass, the Preci likes the 4). I get bass plus distortion -  I always do check the sound at the box and app. 5m away. Then it's time for my second beer!

The 200S got app. 60W, maybe 65W with a solid state reciver. That's not too much Volume - but you can run an full driven tubeamp in a small session room. Do U have a soundsample of your fav. SUNN sound?

Greetings
   
Oli

[ryzingsunn]

Hey Oli,

Mine's got "numbers and pointers". 

What first got me on to sunn was Felix Papalardi's sound (Mountain) but he also played a Gibson eb-1 (violyn bass) which really added to his overall sound which was fuzzy and rubbery.  But the other part of his "fuzz" sound was thank's to those big Altecs flappin- I'm sure.  Felix's sound first got me looking for the 200 S about 2 years ago.  Listen to Frank Zappa's song "Apostrophe" w/ old Jack Bruce (doing one of the best bass solos in the history of rock) fuzzin and rubberizing till the cows come home.  He picked up the sunn and eb-1 habit from Felix too- don't know if that was the rig he used on "apostrophe"- check that out for sure.  What's really got me excited about sunn lately and cemented my resolve to get hold of some proper sunn gear is a cadre of artists from the Northwest US and Japan.  First we got a band called "Earth" fronted by Dylan Carlson (kurt cobain's childhood friend who kurt talked into buying the gun that he killed himself with- he told Carlson that it was for home defense) and who actually have an album called "Smashed Guitars And Sunn Amps".  Next is a band actually named "sunn O)))" (pronounced "sun") .  Sunn O))) is two guitarists (Greg Anderson and Jeff O'Malley) who record big epic slabs of guitar drones, slow guitar riffs, sparsley accented whit drums and ocassionally guest vocalists.  But it is their live shows that will keep the sunn rising on a whole new generation of sunn worshipers.  They wear these immense black draperies called "Grimm Robes" ,stand on onstage amidst thick clouds of "stage fog", in front of huge stacks of sunnage and play floor shaking, detuned guitars (drop A and B) for two hours- I have heard it described as "bewitching".  Finally the coolest band in the world at the moment, from Japan- BORIS!  Boris is a trio of Japanese players: Atsuo (the leader) on drums, Wata (a 4' 9" Japanese female pixie) on Les Paul Classic.  Wata actually plays Orange amps but she is the best psychedelic guitarist since Hendrix (another sunn worshiper)- I love WATA.  On double neck six-string and bass ibanez guitar and sunn stack is Takeshi.  Takeshi is also the main vocalist.  Boris is so cool and the music is immensely amazing!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_(band)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunn_O)))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_(band)

Check these bands out.  If this keeps up; Fender is going to have to start making sunn amps again!

[Oli]

Hi,

I'm not such an expert like edbass or mckinnon audio but I think your amp should be from 1967/1968 because of the printed numbers. I got a live mountain live recording from 1971, the recordingsound is crap but the bass sounds fine. Man, he as really a cool bassplayer! He used several SUNN amps and boxes parallel since the p.a. were quite small in these days.

O.K. here are some things I would try: Try to get some good tubes and check the cabs. It is said that the 6550 tubes do sound more "american" and the KT88 tubes do sound a bit more "british", I use the 6550 and I very happy with these. You 1968er will have a GZ34 reciver Tube, I prefer a sold stater, it gives the bass a bit more headroom (...in my ears).  It's great to use a down tuned bass on the 200S, it gives U a nice compression. A dropped C is very nice...
I would start like this: Volume 3, T:0, Bass 0. So the amp sounds fine and nit cranked. Just use the Bass Pot. This is where the Sunn got his balls from. Just turn it smooth while playing (...3Hands?), you'll notice what I mean.

I don't think that U get the Band SUNN o))) growl out of the 200S.  I think they use plenty of these Model T's. I know the recordings of Isis, they use the Model T's aswell. 

Greetings

Oliver

[mckinnon audio]

  Hey Oli,thanks for the compliment,but I'm no expert,just an old bass player/tech who has a love for Sunn amps.I played Ger. last year with the Marty Hall Trio,hoping to be back there this fall,If I get over we should try to hook up,good luck,Mel.

[Oli]

Hi Mel,

would me cool! I live in Münster in the northern Part of Germany but I'm (quite often) on the Road....just drop me a mail!
Anyway, practical experience from a musicians and techs is always the best way to get to the point! That's what I do like in this Forum: Here are all type of people. I know a lot of "modern" equipment with no support. (try out all this "nice" homerecording equipment  )...this Forum is really close a company support.

To ryzingsunn: Did U get your sound?

Greetings

Oliver