Author Topic: 215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head  (Read 5771 times)

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Offline Randy H.

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« on: October 06, 2001, 01:43:00 pm »
The 200s head I own, when hooked up with the 215s cab (from the 1970's concert bass series), can't get past 6 on the volume dial without getting dirty.  Is this normal?  I hooked this 200s head up to several of my other cabinets as I originally thought the problem was the 215s cab, but the same dirt (past 6 on volume) occurs with every cab I own.  I was thinking of taking the 200s head in to a tech to give it the once over - but he said over the phone that this dirt was normal for a head of that era.  I'm not sure if I should believe him?  Maybe he just isn't up to the task of messing around with the head.  Wondering whether I should return the 200s head - or if it can be adjusted in some way.  I have read so many good things about the 200s head, just not sure if I got a lemmon.

The 215s cab on the other hand kicks butt.  I hooked it up to my Hartke 3500 (300-350 watt) head for the hell of it, and the depth of the sound is just awesome.  I wasn't sure if the Sunn 215s cab is ok to use with this Hartke head.  How much watts can this 215s cab handle.  Also, my Hartke head says 8 ohlms on the back, but the 215s cab says 4 ohlms on the back.  Will I be damaging either the cab or the Hartke head if I use them together?

Any assistance would be much appreciated.  Thanks again!


Offline Isaac

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2001, 09:58:00 am »
Hey, you turn any amp up high enough, and it starts to distort :smile:

The distortion of the solid state amps of the seventies is not usually particularly nice sounding. I recall my Kustom amp sounding particularly bad when I turned it up too high.
Isaac

Offline MarkG

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2001, 12:23:00 am »
You may have an impedance mismatch.The 2-15 from the ConcertBass  is a 4ohm cabinet. Some 200S heads were wired for 16/8 ohms. The jacks were labeled. Some of the later ones were wired for 8/4 ohms,also labeled as such. (although you can go inside and tap the transformer for whatever way you want it,if you know what your looking for.)If labeled 8/4,make sure you attach cabinet to 4ohm jack. If you have the 16/8 you really shouldnt use it until you go in and re-tap the transformer. There are schematics on this sight that will assist you. Or...you could rewire your cabinet. I believe those had 2 8ohm speakers wired in parallel.If you rewired in series,it would be a 16 ohm cabinet. Probly not a good idea. You didnt say if your Hartke was tube or solid state. If tube,same rules apply as with Sunn 200S.If solid state,most of them would match up to just about anything,but the poweroutput would vary,depending on what load you attached. Higher the impedance,the lower the output. For instance the Concert Bass solid state head put out rated power at 4ohms,,I think it was about 120watts.Easily used with 8ohms,but only put out about 80watts. Also usable at 2ohms,somewhere about 160watts (as I recall).  Hope this helps. I also have a 200S,but mine does not distort like you discribe.Mine is very smooth,and has some very nice full deep sonic qualities up on 7-8 and pretty loud. Afraid to go higher for fear of speaker damage. You may also consider  re-tubing if you dont know how old they are.

Offline MarkG

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2001, 12:35:00 am »
Randy..a followup here...What tubes are in your 200S??? Check them against the info on this site,,see if they are the correct ones.

Anonymous

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2001, 04:47:00 am »
Quote

On 2001-10-11 23:35, MarkG wrote:
Randy..a followup here...What tubes are in your 200S??? Check them against the info on this site,,see if they are the correct ones.


Quote

Mark - thanks for the info.  My 200s is the 8/4 ohlm type. The tubes are Chinese KT88's, rectifer is GZ34 , amp also has a 6AN8, and 7025 (not sure what this one is for).  I have hear ugly things about the Chinese tubes so I was planning to replace them with GEC KT88's or Svetlana KT88's, as I have read that these are better.  Others have recommended changing the rectifier to some type of solid state, but I am hesitant about that since I want to have quality sound at higher volumes AND get the amp back up to its original vintage specs.  Others have also said to replace the bypass and filter capacitors, and rebias (to what setting I am not sure).  My friend has this same head and its clear as a bell.  Any suggestions here?  Thanks for your help.

Randy


Offline MarkG

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2001, 12:01:00 pm »
Randy,it all sounds like good advice.These amps are old,and many components can deteriorate,with age. These amps are definitly worth the work,I would start with ALL new tubes including the rectifier.,and make sure the bias is correct for whatever output tube type you use. I currently have Svetlana 6550s and they seem pretty good. Let me recommend a website that you may also get some technical guidance from,you will have to register over there too..   http://vintageamps.com/    there is a bulletin board section from there you can click on,,and many topic segments, including   tubes and components. Check it out.

Offline Ryan Phelps

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2001, 11:52:00 pm »
Randy;
I think your Sunn 200S needs a tune-up! The distortion problem could be your power tubes. I've had good luck with the Svetlana 6550's. If new power tubes and a re-bias (gotta have an amp tech do this...it's not a user-service function)then I would check the multi-section power filter cap. If you still have the original (it's the silver cylinder that stands upright on the chassis)then it's definitely time to change it. Big honcho amp techs like Gerald Weber recommend re-capping an amp if the caps are 10 years old or more. Your cap could be almost 30 years old, so it's due! Have your amp tech replace the multi-section can capacitor (get the correct part from from Antique Electronic Supply at http://www.tubesandmore.com )and replace the two 50 uf electrolytic caps in the negative bias circuit while he is in there. Once that is done your power supply should be back to 100%, then he can track down any residual distortion coming from coupling caps leaking
DC to the grids, etc. But the power filter cap replacement alone may completely fix the distortion problem and you should have that done first anyway.

Good Luck!
Ryan Phelps

Offline Randy H.

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2001, 05:39:00 am »
Quote

On 2001-10-15 22:52, Ryan Phelps wrote:
Randy;
I think your Sunn 200S needs a tune-up! The distortion problem could be your power tubes. I've had good luck with the Svetlana 6550's. If new power tubes and a re-bias (gotta have an amp tech do this...it's not a user-service function)then I would check the multi-section power filter cap. If you still have the original (it's the silver cylinder that stands upright on the chassis)then it's definitely time to change it. Big honcho amp techs like Gerald Weber recommend re-capping an amp if the caps are 10 years old or more. Your cap could be almost 30 years old, so it's due! Have your amp tech replace the multi-section can capacitor (get the correct part from from Antique Electronic Supply at http://www.tubesandmore.com )and replace the two 50 uf electrolytic caps in the negative bias circuit while he is in there. Once that is done your power supply should be back to 100%, then he can track down any residual distortion coming from coupling caps leaking
DC to the grids, etc. But the power filter cap replacement alone may completely fix the distortion problem and you should have that done first anyway.

Good Luck!
Ryan Phelps


Thanks Ryan - great info.  I will pass this along to my tech.   I hop eto be up and running in a couple of weeks, so I'll keep you posted on the results.  Much appreciated!

Randy

Offline Bill Matthews

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2001, 10:41:00 pm »
When one of you finds out where to get the 40/30/20/20@525V caps, please let me know, I've been looking for a year, and no one has them.. PS Don't bother with Antique Electronic Supply, they list the caps, but when you call you find out that they have NONE.. They bought the company that was making them, and tried making them for themselves, with dismal results.. They have owned the company for what I would guess is about a year and a half, and in that time they have not been able to make even one good cap. I guess they should have kept the workforce too..HUH?
May ALL your days be SUNN-Y days

Offline Greg Z

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2001, 05:45:00 am »
Theres a 30-20-20-20 @ 525 up on e-bay
right now, same cap that came in the sunns.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1285749870
I picked one up from this guy last nov.
stuck it in my 1200s. Been running it daily ever since.



Greg Z
to thine own sound be true
 gmz79-at-aol.com

Offline Bill Matthews

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2001, 08:58:00 pm »
Thanks Greg, I'll try to get that one.  I guess I am going to have some time, I need 3 of them...
May ALL your days be SUNN-Y days

Offline Rocketboy

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2001, 09:05:00 pm »
Heads up, everybody!

Offline Rocketboy

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2001, 09:08:00 pm »
Hi Randy -
I wasn't making that stuff up about replacing electrolytic capacitors, tubes, rebiasing, and maybe even a solid state rectifier!  With apologies to some, my rejuvinated 200S sounds like the wrath of God.  Very hi-fi and LOUD.  Ric
Heads up, everybody!

Offline Randy H.

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215s cab (from concert bass series) w/ 200s head
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2001, 04:59:00 am »
Hey Rocketboy

Dropped my 200s off to my tech the other day.  With the help of this web-site and all of your's and other's suggestions, I was able to provide the tech with some specific instructions.  He's a great tech, but I would always feel a little uneasy giving anyone "cart-blanch" reign on vintage equipment.  Hope to pick it up in a week or so.  I only hope that I have similar success as you.  

Like waiting for an early x-mas present!

R-