Author Topic: SUNN Sonic 1  (Read 13841 times)

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Anonymous

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SUNN Sonic 1
« on: April 14, 2005, 09:11:28 pm »
I just bought a SUNN Sonic 1 head for 225 at the guitar show.  It sounds great, distortion tones like no other(no pedal required), but I need more information about this amp.  I was told it was a 69 sonic 1 of 50 watts, but I cant find info on an amp like that.  It says Sonic 1 on it but I cannot figure out if it is a Sonic 1-40 or just a sonic 1.  I read an official description about a Sonic 1 that says it come with EL34s.  I took the head to the shop and the guy says that its a Sonic 1-40 that should have 6550s in it, even though EL34s are currently in it.  How can he tell if it is a Sonic 1-40 or a Sonic 1?  

Granted this amp needed work because I was getting hardly any clean, but I was loving the distortion tone I was getting.  It was breaking up very early.  faint noise till 2.  Semi clean 2-3.  Nice distortion 3-6.  And very distorted past 6,.  So I wouldnt mind going to bigger tubes because I think that may give me a little more room on the dial that is clean, but I dont want to go bigger if I will lose that sweet distortion sound.  Am I thinking about this the right way?

Any suggestions on what kind of complete setup this amp may need?  Manufacturer and size of tubes?  Is the speaker 8ohm and extension 4?  

Please help a new SUNN owner out.

Offline protoz

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2005, 10:45:04 pm »
Here is what ole' Rich has on his site:

 Sonic I
1965 - Like the 60-watt Sunn Amp, could be used for bass and was the
inspiration for the 200S, the 40-watt Sunn Amp would be the logical
predecessor of the 40-watt bass amp with a single 15" rear-loaded
folded-horn bottom.
1966 - Updated to the three-knob, two-switch front control panel and
became known as the Sonic I.  Discontinued by '68 catalog.

If you have EL34's you have the Sonic I and unless you mod or rebias(I forget which) you can get the 6550/KT88's to get more power but not much.  My Sorado is only rated at 60watts and a single KT88 can go up to 100watts each (I have 2) so you won't get full power out of it.

Sunn amps almost always came with 15" bottoms unless it was guitar so and Sunn 2x15 will do.

Anonymous

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2005, 06:52:06 am »
I do have the Sonic 1 then.  and its 40 watts?  So what does the sonic 1-40 look like, and they come with 6550 tubes?  Would the KT88s be too bassy?  He is recommending 6550s but only because he thinks that they should go in there.  I probably should challenge the guy that is working on my lovely new baby, 6550s will do.  I know nothing about types of tubes although I have been a tube amp only kind of guy for years now, any manufacturers I should suggest to ensure that I keep this wonderful SUNN tone?

Offline protoz

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2005, 09:14:13 am »
Well 6550's and KT88's are pretty similar but I lean towards KT88's for bass and 6550's for guitar.  No real reason besides that's what came with my Sorado and 6550's came with my guitarists Peavy 5150.

He would have to rebias the sockets for 6550's or KT88's to work but I would keep the amp as stock as possible, but then again I like to collect them and keep them unmodded if the tubes are old you might want to replace them to get cleaner power.  Also look at getting the caps looked at and replaced so you don't distort much.

With tube amps it isn't all about watts but 40 tube watts won't keep up in an unmiced show that's for sure.

I'm curious to see if my 60 watt Sorado can keep up but I'm not sure either.

Offline Soundmasterg

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2005, 06:18:57 pm »
I've got a Sonic 1 that was made in 1970, so the info Rich Brier has on his site isn't totally accurate. The earlier Sonic 1 was 40 watts and used a pair of EL34's. Later on they changed it to 6550's, AND they also changed the power and output transformer, so it is a 60W amp. The later ones are most likely all the 6550 type with 60W, although if you put EL34's in it your power would go down to 50W or so probably. You can tell which one you have by the size of the transformers. The bigger ones will be the 60W 6550 version. You would have to compare yours to a 200S or something to tell. You amp is exactly the same as a 200S if it has the bigger transformers. If that is the case, then it was intended as a bass amp, however, it works fine as a guitar amp too.
I got mine for $40 in need of lots of repairs. I modified it with a true ground buss, discrete caps instead of a can cap, a ground lift switch, and bigger filter caps in the first two stages for more and tighter bass. I use the amp for bass and it sounds MUCH better after my mods. I had some labels made up to make it into a 200S because the faceplate was all rubbed off on mine, and thats pretty much what it is anyway as the circuit is identical.

If you're using yours for guitar, I would think that the EL34's would sound better. The 6550's won't give you any grit until more than half way up the dial, and the quality of the distortion is harder than with the EL34's. Make sure you have good tubes in it, and make sure all electrolytic caps are replaced with new ones if they are over 10 years old.

Offline Mr.Golden

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2005, 09:08:54 pm »
Does anyone know the going rate for pricing on these? I just tried one out in a used music store but I think that they're asking too much for the condition it's in. It comes with a Sunn 2-15" Cab which has seen better days but still sounds punchy. One speaker is sort of farty.

I've yet to try my bass through this head though. It is an active powered alembic so it may break up to quick unless I use a compressor before plugging into the head.

I'm into the drive tone but I don't want  a "nothing-but-drive" sound for lack of dynamics.

As well I'm trying out hybrid rigs and this head seems like it could work great. The set up goes Solid state through 2-12" speakers @ 8 ohms of a marshall 1960 lead series 4-12 cab and Tube through the other 2-12" speakers also @ 8 ohms.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Offline Soundmasterg

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2005, 06:59:23 pm »
For just a head, anywhere from free to $400 or so is reasonable depending on the shape it is in. The values have been going up, but not as much as an old Fender or something. If the cabinet is included, then all bets are off. The 2x15 cabinet with two JBL D140's were what made the Sunn sound and volume so impressive and they are still valued, mainly by bass players. If one speaker is tired or worn out, and they are both D140's, then the cabinet should be worth around $250-$350. The speakers are about $60 to $150 to recone properly, and Webervst would be the place to go, but he recently stopped reconing speakers other than his own brand again. There are others who could recone the speaker too.
If the speakers aren't the JBL D140's, then the cabinet isn't worth half as much as what I listed. JBL K140's would be ok too, but chop 25% off the price if those are in there. If its something else, then only offer $200 to $300 max for the cabinet.

Offline Mr.Golden

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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2005, 07:08:13 pm »
Thanks...
Upon further inspection, the model I was looking at and ended up buying was actually a Sonic II.

I got both the cab and head for $500.00 CDN and some trade in stuff I no longer use. The top speaker farts some kinda ugly and I'm going to look at it.

Also, upon rehearsing with the head through a different cab, a small problem became more prevolant. The harder I played (such as the transient spikes from a slap bass) a strange muddy, incoherent distortion occured with more frequency as time went on so I just turned it off. The signal also seemed to flutter in volume too as this distortion happened. Any ideas? This is beyond me but If anyone has any ideas, I'd like to rap my head around this before I take it in to an amp tech.

1 keoni

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2005, 03:01:07 am »
Aloha,

  I am in the process of purchasing a Sonic 1 from a friend of mine that was trying to sell the amp for a widower.Apparently her husband passed away and she has decided to sell some of his equipment.The whole rig is in excellent shape,I just had to clean the tolex and faceplate.Though I was skeptical of the EL-34,I was quite surprised with the amount of output from the amp.Of course it helps that the drive is a D-140 instead of D-130.
My first amp that I bought as a youth was a 200S along with a 215S cab. (I still own and have it loaded with Altec 421-8H) which I wished that I still had,but alas I sold it a number of years ago to young bassist looking for his first amp.I guess I just trying to recapture the tone of my yourh.On another note that widower also had a Fender Rhodes Stage model also in excellent shape.

Keoni

Offline Rich Briere

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Sonic 1
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2005, 07:26:03 pm »
Greetings All,

The information on my site was gathered from several sources; mainly Conrad. Many of the amps have been changed over the years ad different tubes, wiring, jacks, etc., have turned up in amps from the same generation.

BTW, I received a post from Conrad the other day and he's going back into the amp business.

Bass-ically Yours,
RB
MTD and Sunn...........life gets NO better than that.

Offline Soundmasterg

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2005, 10:51:46 pm »
I didn't mean any disrespect Rich! And I understand that the info you have may have been gathered from different sources, and of course people's memory isn't accurate years down the road!

I was wondering if Conrad is still in the Portland area, and what a timetable would be for him getting back into the amp business, and mos tof all, if he needs any helpers?! :) I'm in the Portland area myself and would the chance to work on amps and make a living.

Offline Rich Briere

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2005, 08:18:35 am »
No disrespect taken my good man. :^>)

As for memory fading "years" down the road, mine's been known to fade HOURS down the road.

Also, as an FYI, I'm not a tech or a knowledgeable tube guy (what was what and when) so I rely on the catalogs and folks who were there to keep track of that stuff.  

I'll ask Conrad to stop by and read a few of the notes and let you know what he's up to.   8)

Bass-ically Yours,
RB
MTD and Sunn...........life gets NO better than that.

Offline Soundmasterg

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2005, 07:00:53 pm »
Thanks Rich! I know several good amp techs in the area besides myself, and we all would love a chance to work on something like Sunn's and produce something like that...so if he is going to start up something similar again, I'd be very eager to know more. He can email me if he wants or post here if he gets a chance to stop in.

Offline Soundmasterg

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SUNN Sonic 1
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2005, 02:06:14 am »
Hey Rich, I was wondering if you were able to get in touch with Mr. Sundholm regarding his new business/amp making venture? I'd like to find out more details if there are any! Thanks!