Sunn Hall of Fame

[EdBass]

The first two concerts I got to go to as a young teen in 69 & 70 was Steppenwolf & Three Dog Night at the Indianapolis Coliseum. Both bass players used 200S amps. Next it was Grand Funk, Mel was using Sunn. 

Mel used West Fillmore amps. Very "Sunn like", 200 watts from a quartet of KT88's, as with Sunn based on the Dynaco circuit.
Here's a picture of the back of his touring amp, and one of his rig from the front, circa 1971. Eight D140F's, imagine how much air that rig moved!

[Oli]

Hi,

"Fillmore" amps...never heared of them. Can U tell a bit more about them?

Greetings

Oliver

[Isaac]

I think West is the brand, and Fillmore the model.

[EdBass]

Hi,

"Fillmore" amps...never heared of them. Can U tell a bit more about them?

Greetings

Oliver

David West was a high end HiFi retailer in Flint, Michigan who built amps for some of the local players, (Dick Wagner, Grand Funk Railroad, etc.) starting in the mid 1960's.
Here's a quote from Dave West, showing an interesting "Sunn Connection";

"Before the JBL speakers even came in, Dick told me that his friends in a local band, Terry Knight and the Pack, (shades of Grand Funk) were the first band outside of Norm Sundholm's own band to play the new Sunn amplifiers and "would I like to see one?"  I said "what the heck, bring one in."  The amp arrived in the shop and I proceeded to take it apart.  Much to my surprise it contained a completely stock Dynaco Mark III power amp and a very little modified Dynaco PAM-I monaural preamp.  They were putting these items in a cabinet, putting JBL speakers in a cabinet, and getting LARGE BUCKS for these things.  I thought, "If they can do it, why can't I?""

And...he did! The 50 watt "Avalon", the 100 watt "Grande", and of course the 200 watt Fillmore".
West Amps are very Sunn like and very rare. Like old Sunn's, I buy West's when I find them. There are rumours that the Avalon, Grande, and Fillmore will be re-issued, as Mr. West is still in business building/modifying amps; mostly very low wattage/high dollar boutique gear, and providing high end components to boutique amp manufacturers.
http://www.westlabs.com/ 

[Oli]

Was it a "local phänomen" that they all used the Dynaco Mark III design for bass amplification or were there more amps buit on it's basis. I mean, there is this Ampeg B 15 design for bass since the early 60's (1961,62())... it would have been no problem for an technican to add an extra power amp for more RMS power.  Instead of this they prefered a HIFI Amp design to start with!

Just to be shure that there is no misunderstanding: I dont't wanna say that someone has stolen or cloned anything in any way! The SUNN amps are great in the way they are! 

Greetings

Oliver

[Johnny Guitar]

The first two concerts I got to go to as a young teen in 69 & 70 was Steppenwolf & Three Dog Night at the Indianapolis Coliseum. Both bass players used 200S amps. Next it was Grand Funk, Mel was using Sunn. 

Mel used West Fillmore amps. Very "Sunn like", 200 watts from a quartet of KT88's, as with Sunn based on the Dynaco circuit.
Here's a picture of the back of his touring amp, and one of his rig from the front, circa 1971. Eight D140F's, imagine how much air that rig moved!

I saw Grand Funk in 1970 and I believe that was before Mel switched to his West rig. I saw them again in 1971 and there was a Wall of West Amps. I grew up in Noblesville Indiana, about 12 miles north of Indianapolis and the local music store ( Vic Zinn Music )  carried Sunn. The store originally was an appliance store and the owner didn't really know alot about the gear. As a hobby I knew all the specs and prices of the Sunn gear and dreamed of someday owning one. I would hang out before and after my guitar lesson and when someone would ask the specs or price of an amp rather than walk back to his desk to find a price sheet Vic would holler at me to come over and answer questions his customer had. Pretty awesome for a 15 year old! I was always watching for Sunn amps at concerts.

On a side note I remember as 100S amps were being sold they were soon returned because nobody liked the JBL horn. The repairman would remove the horn and modify the cabinet over to two D130s. There was quite a collection of JBL horns hanging on the wall in the repair room.

At 16 I bought my Dream amp, a used Spectrum 1.  First thing I did was make a new baffle and buy a second D130 from Vic and then put new grill cloth on. My buddy had a Dual Showman with two D130s, we were rockin! When we played a couple of local school dances we rented a Sorado from Vic for our bass player, no problem filling an auditorium with sound!

I recently bought a West Grande just to check it out. UPS managed to break both transformers and the cap can off, they were hanging by the wires. Fortunately they paid the claim so I got it free, but I haven't had time to fix it yet.

Check out the Sunn cabs in the Grand Funk pictures. I believe one is the right half of the same picture EdBass posted. They appear to be behind Don's Drum kit. I wonder whats going into them, could it be the piano that Mark played? Are these leftovers from Mel's bass rig?

Johnny G.

[EdBass]

Here's video listed as being from 1969.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6chChxzV0&feature=related
And here's some real old footage, based on Mel's non- Gibson "mudbucker" pickup equipped Jazz bass, and how short Mark Farner's hair was...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvMf3vp0DfA&feature=related

As far as those Sunn cabs in the photo, the fact that some kid is standing in front of them would probably indicate that they weren't active. My guess is they were backline gear for the headliner.
It would be almost impossible for a R&R show from that era to not have some Sunn gear on stage.

[djc]

I love all the link videos that everyoine posts here, its like an anthology of recent(last 60 years) music history.  this is great!  what year did music (and 3 pieces for that matter) die?

[EdBass]

I love all the link videos that everyoine posts here, its like an anthology of recent(last 60 years) music history.  this is great!  what year did music (and 3 pieces for that matter) die?

According to Don McLean, Feb. 3, 1959. I think it's still alive, personally. It's just partially buried by noise called "music".

[Lokibleed]

 That sunn band isn't music to me. I wish they would rename themselves. Maybe its me but, I don't get them.
Am I suppost to be scared or bored? It annoys me so I guess it moves me on that level. Sorry just had to let
that out after I wasted 10 minutes waiting for something to happen while they droned on and on and on.

[djc]

oh, oh.  this topic has been hashed through a few times.  DON'T GO THERE (i agree with you) DON'T GO THERE!

[Johnny Guitar]

Here's video listed as being from 1969.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6chChxzV0&feature=related
And here's some real old footage, based on Mel's non- Gibson "mudbucker" pickup equipped Jazz bass, and how short Mark Farner's hair was...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvMf3vp0DfA&feature=related

As far as those Sunn cabs in the photo, the fact that some kid is standing in front of them would probably indicate that they weren't active. My guess is they were backline gear for the headliner.
It would be almost impossible for a R&R show from that era to not have some Sunn gear on stage.

EdBass I think you are right. That video is from a documentary of the Midsummer Rock Festival in Cincinnati in 1970. That concert also had Mountain, Traffic, Alice Cooper & The Stooges. I think the curtain is hiding most of the next acts equipment which I think was Mountain. After checking some older info I'm sure Mel started out with West and I must be remembering Sunn from the opening act when I saw Grand Funk.

This reminded me of a poster I used to Drool over that was on the wall at Zinn Music. It was a Promo picture of Mountain with a WALL of Sunn. Does anyone else remember the poster or have a copy or picture of it?

Johnny G.

[EdBass]

Here's video listed as being from 1969.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6chChxzV0&feature=related
And here's some real old footage, based on Mel's non- Gibson "mudbucker" pickup equipped Jazz bass, and how short Mark Farner's hair was...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvMf3vp0DfA&feature=related

As far as those Sunn cabs in the photo, the fact that some kid is standing in front of them would probably indicate that they weren't active. My guess is they were backline gear for the headliner.
It would be almost impossible for a R&R show from that era to not have some Sunn gear on stage.

EdBass I think you are right. That video is from a documentary of the Midsummer Rock Festival in Cincinnati in 1970. That concert also had Mountain, Traffic, Alice Cooper & The Stooges. I think the curtain is hiding most of the next acts equipment which I think was Mountain. After checking some older info I'm sure Mel started out with West and I must be remembering Sunn from the opening act when I saw Grand Funk.

This reminded me of a poster I used to Drool over that was on the wall at Zinn Music. It was a Promo picture of Mountain with a WALL of Sunn. Does anyone else remember the poster or have a copy or picture of it?

Johnny G.

Well, based on the era and the style of music, Mel should have used a 2000S rig!
Maybe he used Sunn when he was with "? and the Mysterians".
From what I gather, the West/Grand Funk connection goes back to when the players were in garage bands as adolescents. It seems they were all from Flint, Michigan, and with the possible exception of Dick Wagner’s stint with Alice Cooper, Grand Funk was probably the biggest band to come out of that genre.
I can’t think of another big name band that used West Amps, and I think the affiliation between Dave West and the members of Grand Funk go back to when the players were just kids.
Like Sunn, I think the West Laboratories story is an interesting chapter in Rock history that most current players are unaware of, with West being even far more obscure.

Somebody should write a book about the “other” US amp companies. A story about Sunn, West, Standel, Acoustic, Kustom, Gretsch (sort of), etc. would make interesting reading.

[scotzoid]

I know this thread has been dead for awhile, but I have a fairly distinct memory of seeing Joe Walsh with Barnstorm in Jan 1973 using a Model T, one of the first I had seen outside of the local music store. When I say "fairly distinct memory", I mean by that I was straight, but my attention was diverted by my girlfriend (now wife), who had foolishly played pharmaceutical bingo with her brother's epilepsy meds; I missed a lot of a truly great show making sure she didn't check out on me...opening act was an all-acoustic set by a then unknown Dan Folgelberg (someday I gotta make a cleaned-up copy of the bootleg tape I made of that show).