Author Topic: Sorado with External Power Amp  (Read 3806 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline thefelonwind

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26
Sorado with External Power Amp
« on: September 03, 2006, 07:48:40 pm »
Say with like a Sunn SA 20, or a Concert Slave or something, how would I connect the two? And if it is possible (without any sort of modification), what would be the result on the tone?

Offline Isaac

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,902
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2006, 06:07:27 pm »
My first thought is, you can't. There's no line out or preamp out on the Sorado, as far as I know.

I saw a tech sheet many, many years ago on how to add a line out to Sunn tube amps, but I don't have it. Besides, you said no modifications. You might build a box and incorporate a line out into it.
Isaac

rick.heil

  • Guest
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2006, 09:41:56 pm »
hmmm....if you look back a few days/weeks in the threads,  there was one about a guy who wanted to hook two amps together, a concert slave and something else, with no tone controls or something...

http://sunn.ampage.org/sdp/index.php?topic=3066.0

is the link, I'm not sure exactly what he wanted to do.  You could probably PM him and ask him how he did it.

My guess if you wanted a line out would be to take signal off the master volume or something...I dunno, I'm not too familiar with those amps.  The tone would probably be weaker since you're stealing some of the signal strength...this seems silly, but if you were desperate not to modify, are there 2 speaker jacks?  If so, maybe you could put an attenuator on one and a speaker cab on the other?  Don't do that without researching first, I'm not sure if that's stable to run or not, that's just an idea.

Offline Isaac

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,902
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2006, 03:01:18 pm »
No master volume on the Sorado, AFAIK.
Isaac

Offline EdBass

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,913
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2006, 03:50:47 pm »
My first thought is, you can't. There's no line out or preamp out on the Sorado, as far as I know.

I saw a tech sheet many, many years ago on how to add a line out to Sunn tube amps, but I don't have it. Besides, you said no modifications. You might build a box and incorporate a line out into it.

Issac is right, you would need to do surgery on the Sorado. Even if you built a line out box you wouldn't be able to use the tone stack to control the slave without tapping into the preamp circuit on the Sorado. I think if you need a louder Sorado, you should mic your speaker cab and run it through a PA.

Offline JoeArthur

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2006, 06:21:43 pm »

Ok, I'm game.  :-D

None of this relates to the original question.

A slave amplifies a line level signal to drive a speaker system.  A direct box will provide a line level signal to drive the slave.  Any adjustments to the tone stack of the Sorado will affect the output signal of the Sorado, and thus affect the signal applied to the direct box, and thus will affect the signal applied to the slave.  Therefore it is not necessary to tap into the preamp circuit on the Sorado.

A direct box is just another means of getting a signal, and miking the amp through the speaker is not the only means of getting that signal affected by the preamp controls and just making it louder.

Ok, so what did I misunderstand?


rick.heil

  • Guest
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2006, 06:50:12 pm »
 :-P
I feel lonely not posting with a crapload of purple stars!


Joe, he's looking to link them, and the Sorado doesn't have a line out, so there's really nothing to get a direct box to. 

Unless!

Look for a direct box that can take a speaker output! I know Behringer makes one, its silver and pretty, and I think can take 100W or something crazily high like that.  Maybe get that to the second speaker jack, and then the line from the output of the DI to the slave?

Offline EdBass

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,913
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2006, 09:16:24 am »

Ok, I'm game.  :-D

None of this relates to the original question.

A slave amplifies a line level signal to drive a speaker system.  A direct box will provide a line level signal to drive the slave.  Any adjustments to the tone stack of the Sorado will affect the output signal of the Sorado, and thus affect the signal applied to the direct box, and thus will affect the signal applied to the slave.  Therefore it is not necessary to tap into the preamp circuit on the Sorado.

A direct box is just another means of getting a signal, and miking the amp through the speaker is not the only means of getting that signal affected by the preamp controls and just making it louder.

Ok, so what did I misunderstand?



Maybe I'm just naive, but I've never seen a direct box that takes a signal from the output stage. My only DI experience has been with units that convert the unbalanced high z signal from my bass to a low z balanced signal that makes the console needs to see, but indeed taking this signal before the tone stack. I even keep a Whirlwind DI in my gig bag for the rare occurrence when I inadvertently "bring a knife to a gun fight" and need just a little PA support.
This also should work for providing an input signal the slave, but you would lose the tone shaping of the primary amp's tone stack.
I think I would prefer the fat signal coming through my cabinets and into a SM57 over a post output, pre speaker cab DI signal for situations such as outside when I become largely PA dependent.

But I digress, the thing I like most about this and other music forums is learning new things. Now I know that at least one company makes an output capable DI, but I'm not exactly sure why;

...other than this thread starting dilemma of course.

rick.heil

  • Guest
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2006, 09:36:40 am »
Check out behringer's.... http://www.behringer.com/DI100/index.cfm?lang=ENG

I think the point was for situations exactly like this, maybe! Either that or they just wanted to brag about accepting speaker level inputs.....probably the second one.


You do raise a good point though....the DI probably wouldn't have the same sound at all, and you might have to do a considerable amount of tweaking on the second amp.

Offline EdBass

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,913
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2006, 09:55:36 am »
For thefelonwind's situation I'd say spend the $40. To me it makes more sense to use a post amp DI to drive another amp than to use one for sound reinforcement duty.
IMO Behringer makes "questionable" gear at best, but it's cheap enough to throw away when it breaks and buy another one!
At very least it would accomplish the mission without getting into the circuit on the Sorado.

rick.heil

  • Guest
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2006, 10:05:29 am »
I've run the behringer on my beta lead combo before (into the PA, I was curious to see if it could really handle the "3,000 watts" it was rated for), ran it for a 4 hour show (think "Battle of the Bands" style), and it handled everything just fine.  It'll probably be fine.

But the logic is what I was going for - better to blow out a $40 DI than your amp!

Offline JoeArthur

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2006, 11:02:07 am »

It doesn't have to be that expensive!!

http://sunn.ampage.org/site/schematics/modelt.gif

Take a look at the Sunn model T schematic and scroll far right. At the top you will see two resistors - a 33K and a 680 ohm forming a voltage divider leading to the jack labeled Line Out.   

A trip to radio shack for a suitable box, two resistors and two jacks... a little time with a drill and soldering iron and "presto!!" - your own personal custom made DI box. 

Offline ryanowens

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
  • something something
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2006, 02:10:17 pm »
I'd like to chime in about Behringer,  I have one of their 412 guitar cabs (with whatever stock Jensens they load it with) and despite whatever I've thrown at it (a fair portion being questionable) I haven't had any problems.  Before I got my Sunn 412 for my Coliseum Lead I was using the Behringer and an Ampeg 410 bass cab that gave a pretty good "odd" sound.  On a budget I think it's a safe bet.

Offline Isaac

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,902
Re: Sorado with External Power Amp
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2006, 02:59:37 pm »

It doesn't have to be that expensive!!

http://sunn.ampage.org/site/schematics/modelt.gif

Take a look at the Sunn model T schematic and scroll far right. At the top you will see two resistors - a 33K and a 680 ohm forming a voltage divider leading to the jack labeled Line Out.   

A trip to radio shack for a suitable box, two resistors and two jacks... a little time with a drill and soldering iron and "presto!!" - your own personal custom made DI box. 

That's pretty much where I was going with my "build a box".
« Last Edit: September 16, 2006, 03:09:13 pm by Isaac »
Isaac