sunn 200s 2x15 cab

[Diagnol]

i belive this is my first post on this board, so here's a big hello to all of you sunn freaks 

i will be getting an empty (no speakers) sunn 200s 2x15 cabinet, i think that it is rear loading folded horn design, and was wondering what speakers could i put in that cab, for bass guitar...

i was looking at carvin PS15 speakers, i heard eminence is good too, but i don't know what speakers will work best with that size and volume cab...

any suggestions?

thanks

[meltdown]

I would only suggest that the modern equivalent to the venerable D-140F JBL is as close to a 'can't miss' as any other.  They were the original equipment speaker of choice back in the day and mine still thump very well.  They move a huge amount of air in those cabinets and just plain sound good, although somewhat dated by todays playing styles. 

[Diagnol]

I would only suggest that the modern equivalent to the venerable D-140F JBL is as close to a 'can't miss' as any other.

i'm trying hard, but i can't seem to understand this sentence... sorry
could you rearrange it somehow? are you saying that there isn't any speakers today that can work well with the 200s cab?
as far as i know, the 140f JBL's aren't produced anymore, right?

[Isaac]

JBL hasn't produced D140 drivers for decades. However, they are still available used. K140 drivers are also available occasionally, and usually cost less. They are said to be nearly identical drivers.

Of course there are drivers made today which will work. The cabinet is not particularly large nor small. I don't know if anyone knows what frequency it's tuned to, given the odd shape of the port (and it is a ported cabinet, not a horn, even though that's what it's been called for four decades). But, if you want it to sound like the original, then you need drivers the same as, or very similar to, the originals. "I heard Eminence is good" doesn't help, because Eminence makes so many different drivers, including the Carvin. What will work best depends in large part on what you want the cabinet to sound like, what you think is best.

So, what are you looking for?

[Diagnol]

i'm playing or will be playing downtuned doom, stoner rock and sludge music, with a touch of blues..
i want good drivers that can give me a good clean sound, but sound monstruous with a OD pedal and not crap out when some extreme fuzz kicks in...
actually, i already know what drivers are good for my style (carvin ps15, peavey black widows...), just don't know if they will work good with the 200s volume, design, wood etc...

i could build/(maybe even buy, but that is mission imposible) a sunn 215b cab, coz i know for sure that that cab and carvin ps15 speakers work extremly well together, it's just that i can't find any schematics for that cab as i can for the 200s (http://www.richbriere.com/The_Sunn_Shack.htm)...
any suggestions here?
maybe i should make a new thread, hm 
i already posted a 215b thread in couple of forums like talkbass, and stonerrock.com, but not much people have the 215b, and those who have it don't want to open it or measure it for me and take a couple of pics from the inside.... laziness i guess 

[Soundmasterg]

Isaac, I seem to recall that when we tested your 2x15 at Conrad's, he said it was tuned to 40Hz. The little 1x15 that I made that is slightly bigger than half of a Sunn 2x15, with a port exactly half of the Sunn 2x15, is tuned to 40 Hz. I would guess the 2000S cabinet might be tuned a little lower, but its just a guess on my part.

Greg

[JoeArthur]

Tuning of a cab to specific drivers is very slack.  The intent is to create a sound rather than accurately reproduce one.  Most any drivers that are capable of producing a sound at the frequencies desired will work in most cabinets for musical instrument usage.

As an off Sunn comment, the Kustom cabs used Jensen, Altec, CTS and JBL speakers.  The cab or tuning wasn't altered in any way despite the manufacturer of the driver or their specific driver tuning parameters.

The bottom line is that specific matching of drivers to cabs in the MI world is a joke.  It just doesn't happen... and doesn't need to.

Esamples: JBLs (as in the vintage D130) were used in closed cabs (i.e. Dual Showman), "tone ring cabs" (i.e. sort of a front ported cab - again Showman), open back cabs (i.e. Vibrosonic), the "rear loaded folded horn" Sunn cabs, as well as the dual front ported Kustom cabs.  All with extreme success.

This is not something to be worried about.

[Isaac]

Isaac, I seem to recall that when we tested your 2x15 at Conrad's, he said it was tuned to 40Hz. The little 1x15 that I made that is slightly bigger than half of a Sunn 2x15, with a port exactly half of the Sunn 2x15, is tuned to 40 Hz. I would guess the 2000S cabinet might be tuned a little lower, but its just a guess on my part.

Greg

You might be right. I don't remember him saying that, but he might have. Mostly I remember it being remarkably flat from abbout 50 Hz up to 2K.

[mc2]

Diagnol...

Another problem you will have is that the 200S cabs were designed FOR the fairly shallow D140F speakers....If you choose a large speaker frame it will likely HIT the baffles and not fit! There was just a 200S cab on Ebay this last week that shows this problem...Someone put in different spakers and actually chopped sections out of the baffles to make them fit...DUH!!!

You can find used JBL D140F's on Ebay for around $150 each.

[Isaac]

Also, other AlNiCo JBLs for considerably less. 2215H/J, 2220H/J, 2231H, and, as previously mentioned, the K140 and K145.

I have some 2220H drivers. They're high efficiency, high output drivers. Very loud, lots of midrange, lacking a little on the low end. I also have several D140F drivers, and they're not as loud, but have a better low end.

I have another Sunn 200S cabinet with ceramic magnet drivers, and the internal baffles are intact, so other drivers can fit. Depth can be a factor, for sure.

[Soundmasterg]

Isaac, I can find out exactly what it was tuned to and let you know as I'll be seeing him again in a couple weeks. He's working on voicing a crossover for some 5" tweeters I put in my 1x15, and when he is ready for me, I'll be bringing my 200S and bass down to test it. I do recall that the 200S cabinet was very flat over a wide range. My little 1x15 was close but not quite as good, probably due in part at least to the speaker, because mine is using a JBL E140, and of course to the smaller size.

[Isaac]

While you're there, see if you can get a copy of the frequency response graph. I'd like to have one.

[Soundmasterg]

You and me both! I'll see what I can do Isaac. I'm not sure exactly when we'll be getting together....it could be a couple weeks, but I'll let you know.

[Whip Chop!]

I think Weber makes DF140 equivalents...