seeking advice-->ebay horror story

[feel the sunn]

 

[eotpr]

I think that you only have 30 days to open a dispute but I would do that ASAP.  Do you have the seller's phone number?  I would call him and let him know what is going on.  Remember to follow that up with an Email you may need that later.  Most sellers are willing to help you deal with the shipping company.  Many will refund all or part of your money.  Good Luck.

[JoeArthur]

I think that you only have 30 days to open a dispute but I would do that ASAP.  Do you have the seller's phone number?  I would call him and let him know what is going on.  Remember to follow that up with an Email you may need that later.  Most sellers are willing to help you deal with the shipping company.  Many will refund all or part of your money.  Good Luck.

I do get the impression from this thread that the buyer is looking for a partial refund.

Not that it matters what I would do, but I would be requesting a full one and sending the bucket of parts back to the seller.  Vintage model T's are not that rare that it would take forever for another one to show up on eBay or elsewhere.

It is the responsibility of the seller to deliver the item to the buyer in the "as advertised" condition. This requirement is supported by not only Paypal, but the FTC as well. It doesn't matter what the seller puts in his TOS disclaiming responsibility.

Insurance, which the seller apparently decided not to purchase, is to protect the seller - and NOT THE BUYER as many sellers seem to want the buyer to believe. Especially when the seller offers insurance as "optional" and then try to disclaim responsibility when items are damaged because the buyer decided not to pay for insurance.

Shipping companies, will ONLY deal with the shipper.  The shipper is their customer and not the buyer.  When insurance is purchased and damage occurs, only the shipper can submit a claim against that insurance. The buyer only has to allow the shipping company to inspect the packing, and cannot file an insurance claim.

Which is probably why the seller didn't purchase insurance - in order to qualify for insurance, the packing has to be adequate to provide some level of protection against damage.  This packing would never have qualified as adequate. A model T head qualifies as fragile and would have to be double boxed with at least 3 inches of padding.

IMO - the seller wanted to cut his shipping costs as low as possible. Adequate packing would have pushed the head into what used to be called "oversize 1" at the very least.

Also remember - if the buyer receives a partial refund from the seller, the partial refund will be considered a settlement, and you can't settle more than once. Just make sure it is what you want before you agree to it.

[IKOH2OH]

By sending both the seller and the shipper pictures and damage bill est.  You can cover 2 bases it the event of "pass the buck." 

Hopefuly this will not become one of those situations.

Has an e-mail been sent?

If any parties involved appear to be using a stall tactic, then protect yourself and assume this is the case.

I do not know the limitations reguarding e-bay/pay-pal disputes, off-hand.

C.O.L. is different.


My advice is best suited to an "if you want the "T" repaired" scenario.

No matter what keep an eye on your e-bay rating.

Keep us posted.

IKO

[Mr.Golden]

Alright, so here it goes...

The model T was insured under UPS by the seller for as much as it was worth and I'm getting a cheque in the mail that will likely cover everything and I mean  .

This amp is going to be completely restored with new tubes, caps, etc.

I would like to consult all of the vintage model T owners out there as to their respective preferences and set-ups. I have nothing but choices here and I just don't know where to begin.

My tech is doing me a huge favour by allowing me to try different combinations of different tubes and caps. I should note that he just so happens to have new-old-stock caps that the model T originally came with, not to mention a plethora of other goodies as he is very resourceful.

Any suggestions? KT-88s vs. 6550s? Orange Drop caps vs. NOS? Ya know, that sorta thing. He also has some vintage ECC83 12AX7 preamp tubes that he pulled out of an ancient lie detector unit. Are there any mods that make the amp run more efficiently? I'm completely in the dark here so any advice is worth looking into for me.

I would love to hear from all of you !!!

I will be posting before and after pics when all is said and done.

One thing that I cannot seem to find though is vintage Sunn knobs. For now, I will settle with the close approximation that Fender makes but if anyone has some extras they are will to part with, then please, let me know.

Thank you all for your advice and time!

Matt

[beemrmax]

This is obviously not the shippers fault, hurray for the dimwit who takes the amp apart like every other copycat on feeBay, and can't put the screws back in or tighten them...

What I'm saying is whether you fix it or send it back, this idiot needs to pay you out of his pocket, if he doesn't you're screwed, although you might have some recourse through PPal or your CC.

I'm pretty familiar with shipping damage claims, a friend of mine with the worst luck eBaying has gone through a few. UPS or whoever it was will take one look at the box (not damaged) and the actual damage (inside the amp) and will instantly rule that it wasn't their fault, which it wasn't.

Also, another technicality that they will go on is the weight rating of the box, 100 lb amp in a box not weight rated for it will instantly disqualify you from any insurance claim.

Bottom line is, and I've sent many amps, pack it to survive a drop out the back of a truck... Insurance won't bring your gear back, if they actually even pay and I haven't heard of many cases where they do.

What a SHAME, such a gorgeous piece of gear violated like that! Look at the seller's feedback. He's successfully shipped what, some computer memory? I have to say in closing that it is YOU, the buyer that has the responsibility to MAKE SURE that the sender packs it right, if you have any inkling that he's inexperienced at this, either coach him though it, or request to have it professionally packed.

In final (final) closing, I have to say that "professional packing" is crap, and they will do it as cheaply as possible. I had a 77 Marshall JMP head sent to me, packed by Mailbox etc or similar for FedEx, what a joke, two tiny pieces of padding against the ends and packing peanuts in a weak a$$ box with holes in it when it got here, freakin miracle it made it at all, not even a fragile sticker on it and the head showed up here not working...

Many people know this, and I've had a seller refuse to send a vintage Marshall Combo because he knew full well that taking it to a place to get it packed in NY where people are "angry, underpaid, and don't care" would be the end of the amp...

I just send a Mesa Tremoverb out the other day, 120lbs total weight when I got done! That's 20lbs of packing material around it took me two days to be satisfied with the job, double boxed of course, just about 2 rolls of tape, also I use a monster crown stapler and staple the living daylights out of the box on both ends. Do you think any "professional shipping" center does that?

PS Styrofoam might protect an amp from external physical damage, but it will do nothing to absorb shock...

[Mr.Golden]

You be right in pointing the finger at the seller because true, he did not pack the model T properly and I ostracized him for it. However, he still maintains the box was some kind of heavey duty box and should have done the job. He also  replaced a few parts over the years so he is knowledgable of how amps work. I have spoken to him many times on the phone and can direct my concerns more at UPS with confidence. He insured it and it was destroyed. UPS accepted the claim immediately. I cannot speak completely ill of the seller as he has been quite accomodating, albeit a little slow, in this matter.

I have received the fax that says the UPS insurance claim has been accepted. You see, I am convinced that UPS is at fault because the amp was vey clearly opened up by someone who is not familiar with amps. There is too much evidence pointing to this. The seller was told by the UPS driver who picked it up that the box would be opened at the plant, regardless of how he packed it. I reckon because he insured it for $1050.00 US.

It looks as though it was being searched for some kind of contraban and whoever was doing this did not realize how !@#$%* heavy the chassis actually is. When I pick up the unfastened chassis, it is quite top heavy. If some slacker wasn't expecting this, it would have dropped straight to the floor right on to the face plate where all of the damaged knobs and pots are. Styrofoam does not reek this kind of damage, concrete floors do! This dropping scenario would also account for the bowed chassis.

Furthermore, the metal grill was forceably removed by someone and not re-fastened at all but rather loosely screwed in with new drill holes 1/4 below the original holes. The grill should sit about 1/4" onto the wood of the case but was not upon arrival. There are even a few broken spokes that point to this possibility further. I'll post some high-res photos if this site will take them. They are the photos that I sent to UPS and the seller.

I have already begun the PayPal Resolution Dispute just in case.

I have learned a valuable lesson in this matter. Unfortunately the hard way.

However, I would still appreciate some input from the model T owners out there regarding my previous post. Thank you !!!

m

[beemrmax]

You gotta be kidding... So you're saying that UPS deliberately wrecked the amp looking for drugs, or something?

This story is getting out of hand. I've shipped things insured for 3 times the amount you mention, and I've never heard of anyone "getting their package opened by the shipper".

It's either pure Twilight Zone, or an even better reason to never ship UPS...

[Mr.Golden]

I'm hoping to get authorized by the seller to get access to the UPS insurance info so that I may find out exactly what happened. I only just sent out the request. If I don't get it then I'll know something is up and take more precautionary steps.

[JoeArthur]

I'm hoping to get authorized by the seller to get access to the UPS insurance info so that I may find out exactly what happened. I only just sent out the request. If I don't get it then I'll know something is up and take more precautionary steps.

If you have already accepted a partial refund, and the seller can prove it, Paypal isn't going to do a thing for you. Why would you file a claim with them if you accepted a mutual work-out with the seller in the first place?

I seriously doubt that UPS was responsible for this - as in directly responsible. UPS has no reason to open packages. If this item crossed borders, then customs does have the right to open and inspect.

With this packing, I would really be surprised if UPS provided any insurance payment at all.  Chances are good that the seller is paying you "out of his own pocket", so to speak.

[Mr.Golden]

I have not accepted or received anything in the way of a refund to date. If Canada Customs opened up the package, there would have been "Canada Customs" packing tape all over the box. I'm not sure how US Customs works but if I have not recieved a dime by Friday March 30, 2007, I will escalate the Paypal claim and be done with this once and for all. Again, I have not received any money  in regard to this "insurance claim" and am not expecting anything until I hear otherwise. The cheque should arrive to the seller in the coming days, I hope. Even then, I need the cheque in my hand to prevent me from escalating. Seeing is believing!

I have heard stories of bogus eBay sellers purposefully unscrewing amps and mailing them away knowing full well what will happen. The intent is to mail out an already broken amp and the ensuing damage should cover up the previous damage pretty well and therefore, get him off the hook. Furthermore, I've heard other stories where the bogus seller will try and bide his time until the 45 day period runs out on the PayPal claim, rendering the buyer SOL. I'm pretty sure PayPal will side with me as I have a $#!%load of evidence against him if this insurance claim is just a scam. This is why I am seeking to gain access to the insurance claim file.

If he was "paying out of his pocket", I'm sure we'd be done by now but I payed for the amp on February 1, 2007 and filed the dispute with PayPal with only one week left in the 45 day period. The last day I am able to escalate is Saturday March 31, 2007. This is wearing down my patience and I'm getting sick of it dragging on.

I have taken the time to ask many technicians as to the cost of repair. It was quite varied but nothing under $510.00 minimum. And that was only based on the visible damage. Who knows what else could be wrong after that part is dealt with.  Some technicians wouldn't even look at it as soon as I brought it in citing that I better be will to put alot of money into it.

I do appreciate the insight that all of you have been giving! It helps.

Thanks

[beemrmax]

Two words pop into my head repeatedly and have ever since I first read this story... Complete Refund! But it is a bit late for that, or is it? Why do you even want to hang on to this amp? You paid a lot of $$$ for this and it is ruined, has been since you first laid eyes on it... in person that is.

I couldn't stand to look at that thing, if I'd gotten it, I'd have asked for a complete refund immediately, including the shipping that you paid for but he botched.

That is right, the shipper does get the check, if there's a check, and at that point (The point where he has his wreck of an amp back in his hands and you've been paid back, by him) do you give a rat's you know what whether he ever gets a penny or not.

Too many variables, too many middlemen. You paid him the $1050, It would be him you'd ask to return your $$$, just as PPal would, they could care less about a purported UPS claim...

Back to those crazy Twilight Zone conspiracy theories (Theory simply means unproven) again;


"I have heard stories of bogus eBay sellers purposefully unscrewing amps and mailing them away knowing full well what will happen. The intent is to mail out an already broken amp and the ensuing damage should cover up the previous damage pretty well and therefore, get him off the hook."

That's pretty crazy stuff allright, actually the first I've heard of this, but what do I know after only a couple thousand internet transactions and having my nose in it many hours a day, days and weeks on end sometimes. Some would call it an obsession...

The pics of the amp originally looked wonderful, made me want one! Is this even the same amp then? Was the serial # disclosed or did you ask for it during the auction process? Does it match the amp sent to you? I'm not doubting the deviousness of some people but most of us are just musicians or gearheads without the time or inclination for this sort of thing.


I hate to be negative, but... The second biggest mistake you made, or maybe the biggest in this transaction was accepting the amp and wasting the time to deal with fixing it. Bent chassis, broken pot shafts, mangled this and that... There really are eBay horror stories, and there are some eBay success stories, and there's a reason for this like in all other walks of life. I love to send out a piece of gear, a piece of me goes with it, a job well done, giving the gift of music. It's about caring.

Peace

[fatlizzard]

This is the amp I bid on!



This is the amp I recieved!



I should have had a hint looking at the sellers feedback (-3) and think it was probably shipped with the transformers already loose as the posting above suspects happens with non working amps,the ad never had a photo of the rear of the amp but mentions $100 tubes.after I recieved the amp the seller was un reachable and obviousley his feedback didn't matter to him.He didn't purchace the extra insurance he was supposed to and like someone mentioned, the carrier (XXX) said they would only settle with the shipper,I got creative and I hope im not incriminating myself but I scanned his signature from the shipping reciept and inserted it into a letter to the carrier asking them to settle with the consignee (Me),I eventually recieved a $120 settlement which brought my net loss to only $280, sadly the amp is still sitting waiting for me to get the time and money to repair it.

[Mr.Golden]

A refund is still possible because the Paypal Resolution Center dispute is still open. I have made no mistakes thus far in that respect and covered my bases so that I may get the refund if it comes down to it. However, I will exercise every option before going to the last resort.

Why do I want the amp? Well, let's consider the options...

1) I send it back and get the refund and hope that I can get another model T for the around the same price, knowing full well that it will need a tune-up. I don't think there is such thing as an amp on eBay that does not need a couple hundred dollars worth of work upon arrival.

2) Or, I grill the seller with everything I've got against him, get a partial refund to cover the damages and end up with a completely rebuilt first generation 1973 model T that performs better than it would have otherwise at no extra cost to myself. The end result being the pay off. And all because the seller screwed up. To me, a fully restored model T is worth $1050.00 US and the ensuing headache I payed for it.

I can and will send it back if need be but I chose the high road and began by giving the seller the benefit of the doubt. If this can be resolved in a mature fashion, then so be it. If not, then and only then will the gloves come off. I would not be so confident in the resurrection of the model T if I did not know a skilled technician who can resurrect it.

The last model T I saw on eBay went for $1475.00. When I bought mine, there were two other model Ts being auctioned and I'm sure that's what kept the price down on all of them.

Regardless of how it ends, I am confident that I will be refunded in either one of the ways described.

I will update as I find out more.....