JBL D130f vs. D140f

[Spectrum II]

Thanks, Joe!

Basically, I'm just trying to get an idea of what speaker would sound best in there. I know that everyone has different taste, but I'm just trying to get what is generally considered the best sounding speaker for a cabinet like that.

[EdBass]

I guess I would personally be hesitant to put 120 watts into a single D130 if I was going to be using it for bass as I would be concerned about it flapping or blowing up on the low E string.

I agree that's probably too much grunt for any single D series. Those old JBL's are pretty tough but you can't get factory recone kits anymore. It would probably but OK in a studio situation at low (clean signal) levels, but I think you would regret hitting it hard with four saturated KT88's.
In Spectum II's scenario I would lean towards an EV, maybe a ceramic SRO or an EVM series. Don't buy either until you measure for fit though!

But for guitar use I'd probably go for it, not turning up the volume of the amp to max.

A few years ago I was at a boutique amp show, and one of the people there had an immaculate, totally refurbished, César Diaz modified '64 Blackface Vibroverb with a pristine D130F in it. Of course it was only 40-50 watts, but when he got those 6L6's cooking it was a jaw dropping experience. To this day I think it might be the best sounding guitar tone I've ever heard.
Until then I scoffed at JBL's, or for that matter any 15" driver as a guitar speaker (too slow, no sparkle, no chime, too dark, etc.), but that old 'verb was an epiphany...

[JoeArthur]

Until then I scoffed at JBL's, or for that matter any 15" driver as a guitar speaker (too slow, no sparkle, no chime, too dark, etc.), but that old 'verb was an epiphany...

I love 15" speakers for guitar.

I guess on the low end, there would be CTS 15". They don't have as much high end as other 15"s, and their efficiency is on the low side. I was trying out a head a couple of weeks ago through 2-12" and then plugged it into a 2-15" CTS cab without changing the settings, and the volume drop really amazed me.

EVM 15"s are pretty good. I have a couple of Force 15s in a cab and they have quite good high end.

The really amazing 15" speaker for high end sparkle and clarity is the Blue Marvel Peavey uses in the 1-15" version of the Delta blues. I can't find any specs for it, but it must have a high end around 6.5-7Kz at least. It can get brighter than a lot of 12" speakers.

Another alternative to a D130 would be it's close relative - the Altec Lansing 418-B. Like the D130, it has a cast frame, massive magnet structure, aluminum dome cap. The primary difference is a 3" voice coil compared to the 4" of the JBL.

Ok, back to JBL - a little history tidbit for those that might not know.

The "D" series were designed by Harvey Gerst while he worked at JBL. He left JBL to become one of the founding members of Acoustic Control Corporation, where he designed the 260 amplifier.

Of course Harvey wanted to use the JBL speakers he designed for the two cabs that the 260 could be ordered with - the easily recognized 2x15" with horn, and the 4-12".

JBL refused to sell speakers to Acoustic Control Corporation - having something to do with the fact that Harvey worked there. Not quite sure of the specifics of JBL's refusal to do business.

So that's why Acoustic Control Corporation wound up using Altec-Lansing speakers instead.

Harvey is still active in the music scene - this link will get you too a mini-bio:

http://www.itrstudio.com/staff.html

[Spectrum II]

Speaking of Altec, Ed you mentioned that you've used the 421(?) with good results in Sunn cabs?

I've read a bit of Harvey's writing on the 130's on the Heritage website. I love the fact that he's still actively discussing & answering questions about his work at JBL. There's a lot of knowledge in the correspondence on that site.

As far as my curiousities with the d140f goes, there's a 2x15 Fender cab loade with d140f's in the space that I share with a few other bands that's sitting idle that I should plug into to get a grasp on how the speaker in general sounds. I remember plugging into it before, though, I worrying about blowing something because it seemed to be rattling quite a bit.

[EdBass]

I have a pair of 421A's loaded in a 2000S cab, they sound great, probably the smoothest responding ceramic speakers I have. I would be a little less hesitant than with a D series to run one by itself unsealed behind a 4 X KT88 Sunn amp, but there a likely better choices for the application that you have described. I think the Altecs are rated at 100 watts, and I don't know what the actual rating is for a D JBL, probably 75-100 watts or so.
Again, any of the afore mentioned drivers should work fine at lower levels, but if you want to really get into your amp, you should probably get something a little burlier than the old JBL/Altecs.
I mentioned the EV's, I use EVM 15L's and SRO's, fine sounding speakers and they will take a "lickin' and keep on tickin'" (how old am I?). The E140 JBL will take your amp in stride also, but I personally like the sound of the EV's over the ceramic JBL's but that's just my opinion, it's a solid driver. I can't find much wrong with the cast frame Eminence 15" drivers either, in fact I was very impressed with the Neodymium model and it only weighs 6 or 7 lbs.
 

[Spectrum II]

"Old" maybe , but the guy to come to when it comes to advice. Thank you so much for your help. I'll let you all know what happens. I'm getting the cab on Wednesday & then I'll go from there.

[Isaac]

Speaking of Altec, Ed you mentioned that you've used the 421(?) with good results in Sunn cabs?

I've read a bit of Harvey's writing on the 130's on the Heritage website. I love the fact that he's still actively discussing & answering questions about his work at JBL. There's a lot of knowledge in the correspondence on that site.

As far as my curiousities with the d140f goes, there's a 2x15 Fender cab loade with d140f's in the space that I share with a few other bands that's sitting idle that I should plug into to get a grasp on how the speaker in general sounds. I remember plugging into it before, though, I worrying about blowing something because it seemed to be rattling quite a bit.

Hell, yes you should plug into it!

Keep in mind, though, that D140s are not the same as D130s, and sealed cabinets are not the same as ported ones. So listening to a pair of D140s in a sealed Fender cabinet isn't going to tell you how a D130 will sound in a ported Sunn, especially an odd design like the 115BH. You should do it anyway!

[Spectrum II]

The guy who owns the cab had no idea what kind of speakers he had in it. He's lucky I'm a nice guy!

[Soundmasterg]

One thing that should be mentioned, especially if someone is thinking of buying old JBL D series speakers off ebay, is that there is the JBL D130, and the JBL D130F, and they are different than each other, with the D130F being stronger and higher rated for power. Harvey Gerst goes into this on one of those sites he posted on, but the D130F was based on the D130 and basically made stronger. THe D130 was used a lot for hi-fi and movie theater speakers and things like that back in the 40's. The D140F was intended for bass and was based off the D130F. There is no JBL D140 either....only the D140F.

[po-mo preschool]

Just came across this tonight:

http://www.webervst.com/spkrcalc/jbldek.htm

[Isaac]

Seems to me that I read recently that Gerst said that the D130F was exactly the same as the D130, and that the higher power rating was due to an evaluation of the type of signal that would be fed into it from a guitar amp as opposed to a full-range hi-fi.

[Isaac]

Just came across this tonight:

http://www.webervst.com/spkrcalc/jbldek.htm

Or, you could go to the source: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Thiele%20Small%20Parameters/Theile%20Parameters.pdf

[JoeArthur]

Seems to me that I read recently that Gerst said that the D130F was exactly the same as the D130, and that the higher power rating was due to an evaluation of the type of signal that would be fed into it from a guitar amp as opposed to a full-range hi-fi.

I seem to remember him saying that the D130F had more space around the voice coil to prevent the coil from deforming when the idiots at Fender insisted on crunching the frame to the baffle using air powered sockets. I think he also says they should be mounted only using 4 bolts instead of all 8 to also avoid deforming the voice coil.

[Isaac]

Yes, I just found that.

The D130 and the D130F were essentially the SAME speaker. Exactly the
same voice coil, cone, spider assembly, magnet, basket. The only things I
did to the F are listed in a previous post, along with my reasons for
doing them.

I revised the guitar ratings since those D130 ratings were for INTEGRATED
music, like a symphony or a full band playing from the radio, tape or a
record. The rating for a single live instrument like a guitar is much
different, since there is nothing below 80 Hz or above 5 or 6 KHz coming
out of a guitar (at least back then). A D130F (or a D130) could easily
live with a higher power rating and we/JBL/I adjusted the rating
accordingly. The new rating would also apply to a JBL D130 if used for
that purpose.

If you had called JBL back then, you would have been transfered to me and
that is what I would have told you. Since I was in charge of that
division, I was responsable for creating those ratings and that was
our/my official position on the subject. As far as power handling, there
was no difference - the rating was changed to more accurately reflect
what the D130 or D130F could handle if used with a guitar as the source.

The changes he mentions were the increased voice coil gap, which gave a little leeway for overzealous mounting, and putting "goop" on the surround to protect it from the sun. That's it. Increasing the voice coil gap decreased the magnetic flux, which in turn would slightly reduce the sensitivity. Not by much, though. Mr Gerst estimates the D130 at 12,000 gaus, the D130F at 11,700.