Author Topic: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps  (Read 100487 times)

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Offline EdBass

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2008, 10:24:12 pm »
well, i suppose ed meant that he thinks the appeal that draws people to the band is because they are such a departure from the norm that the consumer would feel "cool" or hip to be "in to" them.

Pretty much, but as much as an expression of rebellion as hipness. I think most adolescents, particularly males, go through a phase of rebellion as part of the normal maturation process. Kind of a by product of the testicles dropping, I think it’s natural for young adults to try to find their own identity, apart from simply being a little clone of their parents and/or other influences. Many times this manifests itself in things like vandalism, blowing sh*t up, etc.
Also, traditionally living vicariously through persons in the limelight for various reasons; musicians, athletes, actors, even publicized criminals, sometimes combinations of the afore mentioned identities (i.e football players indicted for assault, musicians arrested for DUI, and so on) is commonplace; these characters becoming role models of sorts, making the rationalization of aberrant behavior acceptable to the confused, impressionable, hormone addled mind.
Of course, clan mentality factors into this equation. Being a follower can carry the acceptance and reassurance of a like minded group, and go a long way towards validating this “individuality”.
Just as an example, the “Goth” culture; a bunch of kids striving to assert this individuality by being exactly like all of their peers.
Or…”Skinheads”
Or… “Drone”
Or…”Hip Hop”
Or…”Grunge”
Or…”Mods”
Or…”Rockers”
Or…”Jazz”
And so on…
I’m not being judgmental, lord knows as a man-child I personally am embarrassed by some of my own self righteous activities; my adult rational for some of my behavior the early 70’s is that I believe it to be a normal part of maturation.
While I do not in any way condone anti social behavior, I believe the real danger exists when these behaviors extend into adulthood, well beyond the time when the individual should move into the “responsible adult” phase of life.
Particularly in the instances where this afore mentioned youth mentality is exploited for financial or personal self esteem reasons.

and he can't really understand why someone would like them since he doesn't really care for that type of music.   i could be waaaaaaay off. 

Quite the contrary, as I state above I think it’s normal for young adults to be attracted to non mainstream attractions. In the case of music (and I use the term “music” very loosely in the example of the band Sunn), there is the added attraction that anybody with a guitar and an amp can emulate it, even without actual talent. This makes it accessible for the rock star “wanna be’s” to form “bands” and maybe garner some status among their peers, without the hassle of lessons, practice, etc.
Kind of the way jazz musicians must have looked at “Rock and Roll” in the 50’s.

  and yes, i have wondered about the name rip off per say.  it's more of an homage to the type of amps the guys love.  even though it really isn't.   they (the band sunn) started doing what they do as an homage to the band "earth".   not the pre- black sabbath earth.    but another drone band from seattle.  sunn was originally called "mars".  earth / mars.   then they changed to sunn because of the amps and because as to put it in to their words "the earth revolves around the sunn".  poking fun.  the band earth even had a record titled "sunn amps and smashed guitars live".  so everything is kind of tonque in cheek and a play on words / names. 

Well, whatever.
I still would imagine that if the band ever got even close to mainstream, or if FMI would get serious about marketing the Sunn brand, the band and any of their pseudo “labels” would find their butts in a courtroom.

Offline Isaac

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2008, 07:42:10 am »
Quote
Kind of the way jazz musicians must have looked at “Rock and Roll” in the 50’s.
And the way rockers looked at punks in the late seventies.
Isaac

Offline EdBass

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2008, 08:52:47 am »
Quote
Kind of the way jazz musicians must have looked at “Rock and Roll” in the 50’s.
And the way rockers looked at punks in the late seventies.

And so on, and so on, and so on... :wink:

Offline JoeArthur

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2008, 09:52:04 am »
I still would imagine that if the band ever got even close to mainstream, or if FMI would get serious about marketing the Sunn brand, the band and any of their pseudo “labels” would find their butts in a courtroom.

Why would you think this?

Seriously, I wouldn't think FMI has any legal legs to stand on. I'm certainly not a lawyer, but I can see these concerns:

o FMI certainly doesn't own the word "Sunn". It was used as a name (for people as well as businesses) long before even old Norm though of using it for an MI company, regardless of how he might have justified it. It's even used as part of the name of a pseudo hemp plant.
o "Sunn O)))" is not a copy of the Sunn logo. It would never hold up in court as easily mistaken for the brand, like a Telecaster headstock outline would. This wouldn't either, even though it's closer.



o I don't believe the band has any intent... nor would they derive any benefit... from being associated with FMI. This could be debatable.

I guess I think the use of a name, unless there is an obvious intent to deceive (e.g. by sucking off FMI customers without knowledge on their part) is kind of fair game.

That's why we have Gibson as an MI company. And we have the Gibson which is sort of like a martini. There was/is a Gibson company that made household appliances, and we have parts companies still selling parts for these Gibsons. Then of course we can't forget the Gibson that drew the Gibson Girl for us.

If all it took was a name to be able to sue... Heck, if that were true you might not be able to get your fender repaired at a body shop.

 :-D

Offline Isaac

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2008, 03:00:42 pm »
Joe, you might want to take a look at the litigation history of a company called McDonald's. Not only do they sue pretty much anyone who uses the name McDonald's, they sue pretty much anybody who uses any name with Mc in front of it.
Isaac

Offline EdBass

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2008, 03:55:04 pm »
I still would imagine that if the band ever got even close to mainstream, or if FMI would get serious about marketing the Sunn brand, the band and any of their pseudo “labels” would find their butts in a courtroom.

Why would you think this?

Seriously, I wouldn't think FMI has any legal legs to stand on. I'm certainly not a lawyer, but I can see these concerns:

o FMI certainly doesn't own the word "Sunn". It was used as a name (for people as well as businesses) long before even old Norm though of using it for an MI company, regardless of how he might have justified it. It's even used as part of the name of a pseudo hemp plant.
o "Sunn O)))" is not a copy of the Sunn logo. It would never hold up in court as easily mistaken for the brand, like a Telecaster headstock outline would. This wouldn't either, even though it's closer.



o I don't believe the band has any intent... nor would they derive any benefit... from being associated with FMI. This could be debatable.

I guess I think the use of a name, unless there is an obvious intent to deceive (e.g. by sucking off FMI customers without knowledge on their part) is kind of fair game.

That's why we have Gibson as an MI company. And we have the Gibson which is sort of like a martini. There was/is a Gibson company that made household appliances, and we have parts companies still selling parts for these Gibsons. Then of course we can't forget the Gibson that drew the Gibson Girl for us.

If all it took was a name to be able to sue... Heck, if that were true you might not be able to get your fender repaired at a body shop.

 :-D

Unless of course the aforementioned body shop was advertising "fender" repair using the attached logo...

It doesn't even take a "name" to sue. Frivolous law suits abound in our system of jurisprudence.
I could file suit against you Monday morning for some percieved slight in one of your posts; defamation, libel, etc., just to make your life miserable for a few months...
If I felt like flushing several thousand dollars down the toilet, and making myself wide open for legal recourse!  :-D

As far as "legal legs", maybe yes, maybe no, that's for a court to decide.
But, as I will attempt to explain, it's likely a moot point.* 

I think the Sunn logo is close enough, but If I was a gambling man, I'd bet we'll never know. To actually make it to trial would take a "perfect storm";

FMI would have to decide to resurrect the Sunn brand.
(?)
The band would need to reach a level of popularity where it would become a factor.
(Come on! Doubtful at best; they play one note songs for Pete’s sake...)
FMI's legal and marketing departments would have to determine that the band's association was detrimental to the brands overall appeal.
(Probably. while the band obviously has influence over some MI buyers, it's limited at best, and IMO mostly not potential buyers who would normally pony up to new gear price points. This, as with this entire dissertation, is pure speculation on my part, but I would imagine the "doom" genre is generally discredited among the demographic normally associated with new gear purchases)
Most importantly, the band would need the fiscal wherewithal to do battle.
(Civil court can be a very expensive proposition, I would think they would not have the war chest required for the task. Unless some entity with the resources should decide that the resultant publicity would equate to future revenue at a profit rate commiserate to the legal expense...)

Joe, I don't think I insinuated that FMI would necessarily win litigation, that would be questionable, trying to guess which way hizzoner will rule is like picking the Super Bowl winner... the 2010 Super Bowl.
But they likely wouldn't have to.
If FMI were to file, Sunn the band either answers the call ($$$), or a cease and desist is coming their way tuit suite.

Again, I can't really imagine this happening, but I would follow it with rapt attention if it did!




*The following opinions are purely speculative, and are not to be construed as legal advice or instruction in any manner.


« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 12:01:30 am by EdBass »

Offline EdBass

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2008, 04:50:24 pm »
so be it-matters of taste are indisputable.
s

No doubt! That's one of the things that makes this such an interesting world.
I admit I've only listened to a limited selection of Sunn's material. It's not that I don't understand, can't grasp it, or I'm not "enlightened", but seriously and with no disrespect intended, I fail to see anything actually musical about them.
I know you have posted that these guys c a n play, can you provide a link, or otherwise direct me to a selection that contains content requiring musical talent to duplicate?

Offline JoeArthur

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2008, 08:18:47 am »
so be it-matters of taste are indisputable.
s

No doubt! That's one of the things that makes this such an interesting world.
I admit I've only listened to a limited selection of Sunn's material. It's not that I don't understand, can't grasp it, or I'm not "enlightened", but seriously and with no disrespect intended, I fail to see anything actually musical about them.
I know you have posted that these guys c a n play, can you provide a link, or otherwise direct me to a selection that contains content requiring musical talent to duplicate?

Well Ed, maybe it is us. We've both been around a while, you obviously much longer. But not to the point where we can't get a couple/few of those old synapse connections to fire...

We learned the difference between music and noise. Music was that which had attributes like melody, harmony and rhythm. Noise was that which didn't have those attributes.

But that definition was much too objective. Too black and white. Shades of gray are infinitely preferred over black and white. Pastel shades can be awful purdy also. Imagine a whole rainbow of... ahem, sorry I digress.

People have their feelings hurt by such a concrete definition. It is just so politically incorrect and totally unnecessary. I heard the other day that "spin is your friend".

We can make anything real by just pretending - and there is no need not to pretend that noise and music are not the same thing. It hurts no one and makes everyone so nice and happy. And we all benefit because there is now so much more music to choose from in the world!!

What helped me change my mind about all of this is finding that this music actually has notation - in the form of guitar tab of course. Certainly you must agree it is music when there is guitar tab for it. That is really a superior definition of music IMHO.

I found this on the web and thought I would reproduce it here. It is more complex than you would expect and that explains it's "novice" rating. Watch out for the second and third changes as they might sneak up on you.


Death Becomes You
Quote
I don't remember if this is all or part of the song but it is basically the droney part
throughout the song.

The tuning is: A, E, A, D, Gb, B, wierd ain't it?

|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-0--------2--------3------------------0--------0--------0--------0--------|
|-0--------2--------3------------------0--------0--------0--------0--------|
|-0--------2--------3------------------0--------0--------0--------0--------|

Now with sufficient practice, we can all play along.

so be it-matters of taste are indisputable.

Parrot it a little longer and maybe you can get a few more people to believe it.



Offline JoeArthur

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2008, 03:08:54 pm »

so be it-matters of taste are indisputable.

Parrot it a little longer and maybe you can get a few more people to believe it.

its simply a quote from the latin:
"de gustibus non est disputatem"
i learned it in art school a long time ago.
it only means i like vanilla and you dont.
joe-i love your acumen on this site and i'm afraid when i ask a question about some thing going on w/ my Sunn rig-you will dismiss it because i like the band sunn.
i hope that doesnt happen man.
yours in music appreciation
staninsanfran

Should I mention that people speaking latin... died off a while ago?  You sure you want to rely on their, uh... statements of wisdom??? :-D

It is inconsistent to claim your taste is indisputable, but then behave as if my obvious lack of taste is open for you to dispute. You can't have it both ways.

I really have no concern who you like. And chances are purdy darn good that I'm not going to remember anyway. Seriously, it ain't gonna change my life one iota.

Besides, I'm really not the petty one... although I do admit to devious!!  :evil:

Offline n!k

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2008, 09:51:27 pm »
Breaking news : old people don't understand new fangled music; claim its inferior to good old days.

More on this incredible news update at 6. :wink:

My Sunn Amp:
1971 "Coliseum" Model T (Prototype, Made in Portland)

Offline JoeArthur

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2008, 02:04:30 pm »
Breaking news : old people don't understand new fangled music; claim its inferior to good old days.

More on this incredible news update at 6. :wink:

So it's only the young whippersnappers that like this noise?

Oops, "noise" is another genre.

Not sorry for any confusion that may cause since this confusion is authorized and approved by the record labels.

Offline cromag

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2008, 03:38:54 pm »
bagaaaaack, steelers will win.  steelers will win.  baagaaaack!       


(get it?  parroting.  super bowl predictions.  nothing?  allllllright)





joe would never stop answering questions because of something you like and he may not.  he still talks with me.  and i say some of the darndest things. :-D

Offline n!k

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2008, 08:09:32 pm »
Nah it's not noise. One of the beautiful things about music is that notes and tones and all that crap don't mean anything in and of themselves. The human brain associates them with emotions in their most raw and unaffected state. If people get a rush from listening to drone, what does it matter how complicated the guitar parts look on tab? Does it make those feelings any less real for the listener who enjoys it than anything else? I can post plenty of insanely complicated guitar tabs of songs that mean absolutely nothing to me, for example. I just never understand why the bother about genres sometimes.
My Sunn Amp:
1971 "Coliseum" Model T (Prototype, Made in Portland)

Offline justinmilwaukee

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Re: Pic Post of famous players playing Sunn amps
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2008, 07:21:22 am »
"Nah it's not noise. One of the beautiful things about music is that notes and tones and all that crap don't mean anything in and of themselves. The human brain associates them with emotions in their most raw and unaffected state."


^^^AGREED!^^^

I will never understand how one musician can have the balls to say that what another musician produces is not music, much less any type of art form, strictly on the basis of them not liking it. Sunn O))) actually played as part of an art showing where their amps were all set up in a room, but they were isolated in a room off of the main gallery, where no one could see them.

And sure I've said I hated a band, and there are bands I dont listen to, and theres definitely bands that I will refuse to listen to if it comes on the radio, etc... But I will never deny that a specific band or artist is not music or art simply because I don't like it. That is just in bad taste.

And I type "Sunn O)))" because that is the bands name. I do understand that it is pronounced just "Sunn," when talking. And hey, since one of the n's is silent, why not just stop typing that? And then we can stop typing every letter in the english language that is silent in that case. Hell, lets just type and write how words sound to us rather than their actual, proper spelling. SOWNDZ AWSUM RITE?