Author Topic: ss rectifier  (Read 8050 times)

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Offline noel

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ss rectifier
« on: July 31, 2008, 08:26:29 am »
Hey all,
I got my 2000s today and noticed that its the 2nd version (ss rectifier).  I've only ever seen the first version (dual gz34 rectifier).  I'm wondering if anyone has the appropriate schematic.  I'm also fishing for opinions on whether I should convert it to a tube rectifier or just leave it as is. 
thanks

Offline EdBass

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 07:52:24 pm »
The tube rectified version is rated at 30 watts less than the SS, 120 watts vs 150 watts, and the to my ears the tube rectified models don't seem to be as tight on the bottom, and have a slight but noticable sag when you push them.
They both sound great, I suppose it all depends on what your personal tasted are.

Offline stanner

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2008, 01:12:17 am »
dummy me-i have  heard that ss or tube rectifier has no influence on the sound since its not part of the audio signal.
wrongum boyo?
s
AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER

Offline noel

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2008, 07:06:33 am »
Thanks for the input guys.  Having not played one yet I can't comment on the sound (ss vs. tube).  I suspect Stanner might be on to something.  I'm still looking for a schematic.  Anyone got one?
thanks

Offline EdBass

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2008, 10:33:50 am »
dummy me-i have  heard that ss or tube rectifier has no influence on the sound since its not part of the audio signal.
wrongum boyo?
s

The rectifier circuit is not part of the audio signal path, but it does have influence on the audio signal path circuit. The rectifier is the part of the power supply that converts the AC to DC (a vacuum tube, like a SS diode, will only pass current in one direction, but a dissertation on rectifiers is well beyond the scope of this thread). The difference is that the SS diode is way more efficient at passing this current and as such delivers a stronger current flow than a comparable vacuum tube, particularly when the amp need a spike of juice, or when it's running at peak or close to peak output. This is also why the SS rectified 2000S is rated at 150 watts vs the tube rectified versions 120 watts.
Any current used to produce heat is current not getting to your audio circuit, and we all know how much heat a vacuum tube produces. The result is that the tube rectifier can/does starve the audio circuit for current under the before mentioned "high load" conditions causing a phenomenon generally called "sag" which affects the tone in a similar fashion as a rheostat or a variac would, by restricting DC to the gain stages, generally increasing harmonic distortion proportionate to overall volume, sometimes referred to as “browning” or “brown out” or “brown sound”.
Sag is generally not as pronounced as the intentional browning cause by a variac or power scaling, and it’s variable dependent on specific gain stage power demand at any given time, but it will indeed effect the tone of an amp.

I personally prefer a SS rectifier. As a bass player, I normally prefer the additional headroom and more controlled distortion of a “well fed” power amp stage to the power demand induced sag of a tube rectifier in most situations. I do have both SS and tube rectified Sunns, but I generally use Weber Copper Caps in lieu of tubes in the tube rectified ones.

On the positive side of tube rectifiers, they do provide for a "soft start" (the rectifier tube slowly ramps up the power to the amp as the tube heats up, as opposed to the jolt to the cold circuit when the SS rectifier slams it with full power instantly at startup) and can arguably extend component life in the amp. Also, I sometimes like the sound of a amp sagging, for example; it seems to make it easier to make a clean tone get all snarly when you get aggressive with the strings, which I think can extend your "touch" dynamic range in quiet gig or studio settings.


Offline Wally

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2008, 03:17:55 pm »
Ed, my 1200S has the dual GZ34's. Is there any problem with removing one of the GZ34's to reduce voltage and increase sag? We guitarists tend to like sag/compression a bit more than bass players.

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 04:35:38 pm »
The amp was designed to use two GZ34's because it needed both tubes to support it's current demands. If you only use one, it will not work correctly, and your single remaining GZ34 will promptly die. You "could" get away with using just one Weber Copper Cap WZ68, which is like what a double current GZ34 would be, but you would have to do some rewiring of the amp to utilize it. If you want sag, then try switching to two 5U4GB's....that will lower the voltages throughout the amp in addition to sagging more than the dual GZ34's. You can also try any of Ted Weber's Copper Cap equivilants as long as you use two of them. The only one you can just use one of is the WZ68 and it requires an amp rewire as I said above.

Btw, Nice writeup Ed! Very clear and consise.

Greg

Offline mckinnon audio

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2008, 06:38:02 pm »
  Like Ed,I too prefer the s.s. rectifier for bass,but I prefer the tube for guitar.I've got 2 68' Solarus's with EL 34's,and I use a Mullard CV-1377 and they sound deluxe,well to my ears anyway,Mel.

Offline noel

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2008, 09:11:44 pm »
Schematic?
pretty please!

Offline EdBass

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2008, 10:40:03 am »
Schematic?
pretty please!

There is a tube rectified 2000S schematic on this site, I don't have an actual factory schematic for the SS rectified 2000S.

It's virtually the same schematic with a bridge rectifier and no GZ34's.

Offline noel

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2008, 03:54:30 pm »
Awesome, Thanks Ed.  I can't seem to find it.  Maybe I'm blind.  Would you link it to me?
thanks

Offline EdBass

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2008, 07:27:51 pm »

Offline noel

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 09:37:51 am »
Thanks Ed, but that's the one I already have.  That one uses the gz34's though.  I don't see the section with the solid state rectifier.  Is it in there?  If so where?
thanks

Offline EdBass

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Re: ss rectifier
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2008, 10:02:25 am »
Thanks Ed, but that's the one I already have.  That one uses the gz34's though.  I don't see the section with the solid state rectifier.  Is it in there?  If so where?
thanks

There is no SS rectified schematic that I've seen. I'm sure it exists, but I've never seen it.

Schematic?
pretty please!

There is a tube rectified 2000S schematic on this site, I don't have an actual factory schematic for the SS rectified 2000S.

It's virtually the same schematic with a bridge rectifier and no GZ34's.


I have a SS rectified 1200S schematic, but the file is too large to post. If you PM me your email address, I'll send it to you.