Author Topic: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?  (Read 7806 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline gtrplayr1976

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • My 1st gen. Model T 1977
Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« on: August 21, 2010, 07:35:02 pm »
What do Model T users prefer for guitar ...KT88s , or 6550s  ?

Offline mike_sims

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 213
Re: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2010, 08:32:07 pm »
if i recall correctly 6550's are  KT88's, just a different name...er... something.. But i get what your saying. I've heard Kt's are closer to how the T's originally sound (being they were equipped with kt88's upon release). all mine have 6550's so i cant give an honest comparison. Stan?
MAXIMUM VOLUME YIELDS MAXIMUM GOATS

1974 Sunn Model T
1975 Sunn Model T
2 Sunn 412L cabs

Offline Soundmasterg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 745
Re: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2010, 11:26:28 pm »
Originally the KT88 was made by GEC/Genelex, a british company. The American Tung-Sol 6550 was probably the tube they were trying to compete with, but the KT88 came out later and had better specs in power output, max voltages allowed, and plate dissipation among other things. So back in the day, a KT88 was a superior tube. These days it is hard to say as many modern tube makers don't publish their specs, and often share parts between tubes, but the KT88 is probably still the superior tube for functional aspects. For sound, well that is subjective so who knows. Personally I've always used the JJ KT88 in my Sunns and have had great luck and excellent sound with them. YMMV.

Greg

Offline stanner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
    • s t a n o s a u r
Re: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2010, 01:48:07 am »
i believe in tung-sol 6550s for all my Ts. never let me down and they roar(rhymes w/ stanosaur).  altho i have used sovtek KT88s-no discernable difference in sound for me.
http://stanosaur.com/
AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER

Offline gtrplayr1976

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • My 1st gen. Model T 1977
Re: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2010, 05:44:36 am »
I know I swapped from 6550s to JJ KT88s in one of my Marshalls, and it made a huge difference. Lots of headroom.  I just didn't know what they would sound like in a Model T.  I guess it's like anything else...personal preference .  I appreciate all the feedback.

Offline biltmore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 248
  • The Sound Choice
Re: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2010, 09:10:28 am »
Personally I've always used the JJ KT88 in my Sunns and have had great luck and excellent sound with them.

Same here. My Sunn's love JJ KT88's.

Offline Isaac

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,904
Re: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 10:16:08 am »
if i recall correctly 6550's are  KT88's, just a different name...er... something.. But i get what your saying. I've heard Kt's are closer to how the T's originally sound (being they were equipped with kt88's upon release). all mine have 6550's so i cant give an honest comparison. Stan?

Nah. Sunn went to 6550's several years before the Model T came out. My T (I am the second owner, and was playing in a band with the first owner when he bought it) came with 6550's. 1975, I think.
Isaac

Offline EdBass

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
Re: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2010, 11:36:46 am »
Originally the KT88 was made by GEC/Genelex, a british company. The American Tung-Sol 6550 was probably the tube they were trying to compete with, but the KT88 came out later and had better specs in power output, max voltages allowed, and plate dissipation among other things. So back in the day, a KT88 was a superior tube. These days it is hard to say as many modern tube makers don't publish their specs, and often share parts between tubes, but the KT88 is probably still the superior tube for functional aspects. For sound, well that is subjective so who knows. Personally I've always used the JJ KT88 in my Sunns and have had great luck and excellent sound with them. YMMV.

I'd say you're dead on, but I'm not sure if it was so much of a competition with the 6550 as it was a higher powered advancement of the existing KT66.
The KT88 was to the 6550 as the KT66 was to the 6L6, pretty much the British equivalent for the same specification, not necessarily made to compete with the US tubes, but to satisfy design specifications for British amplifiers of the day.
Remember, we're talking about a time when transistors were in their infancy; everything that amplified electronic signals was tube, unlike today when tube amplified devices are only used in a few audiophile and MI instrument applications. Tubes were a dime a dozen, finite lived items that were intended to be replaced at regular intervals at a minimal expense rather than the high dollar glass bottles we use in our amps today.
Which is better tonally is subjective, however the GEC KT88 is arguably the best performing; power, dynamic response, etc. beam tetrode ever, and soon replaced the 6550 in a lot of high end hi-fi amps of the day because of its higher power output and lower distortion.
Apparently this superiority is still generally accepted; a single NOS GEC KT88 can run $500, while a matched pair of NOS GE 6550 can be had for around $300.

As far as current production tubes, well, I don’t think it makes much difference, however many Sunn-o-philes (myself included) have great success with the JJ KT88 in their Sunn circuits.
It’s my personal experience that the JJ’s are a good balance of dynamic performance, power output, and price.

if i recall correctly 6550's are  KT88's, just a different name...er... something.. But i get what your saying. I've heard Kt's are closer to how the T's originally sound (being they were equipped with kt88's upon release). all mine have 6550's so i cant give an honest comparison. Stan?

Nah. Sunn went to 6550's several years before the Model T came out. My T (I am the second owner, and was playing in a band with the first owner when he bought it) came with 6550's. 1975, I think.

As Isaac posts, Sunn switched to 6550’s in 1969, and never equipped an amp with KT88’s after that AFAIK either. They claimed it was because of the “superior performance” of the 6550 in the Sunn circuits, but since the Dynaco MkIII that the amps emulated was actually designed in 1957 around the Genelex KT88 specification, my guess is it was a cost cutting decision and not done as an “improvement”, or to remedy problems with the GEC tubes.

Here’s the letter announcing the switch;

Offline Soundmasterg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 745
Re: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 10:20:01 pm »
Ed, it was a cost cutting measure to switch from KT88 to 6550.....I've talked with Conrad in the past about this and he said as much.

What I meant when I said competition was that there were often differences in a tube design that were made to get around a patent. In the case of the KT88, they were given superior ratings to assure that they could advertise that their tubes were better than the Tung-Sol 6550, which they were, though the Tung-Sol sounds great also. GE later came out with the 6550A, which had better specs than the Tung-Sol 6550, but still not as good as the GEC KT88. That said, the GE 6550A is THE tube for vintage Ampeg SVT's.

Greg

Offline mike_sims

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 213
Re: Model T.... KT88s , or 6550s ?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 01:33:56 am »
I'd say you're dead on, but I'm not sure if it was so much of a competition with the 6550 as it was a higher powered advancement of the existing KT66.
The KT88 was to the 6550 as the KT66 was to the 6L6, pretty much the British equivalent for the same specification, not necessarily made to compete with the US tubes, but to satisfy design specifications for British amplifiers of the day.

As Isaac posts, Sunn switched to 6550’s in 1969, and never equipped an amp with KT88’s after that AFAIK either.
Ah, that's what I meant to post (about the equivalence between the two, just figured I'd let someone more knowledgeable answer it correctly, thanks.

As for the switch in 1969, I must have been reading about a different Sunn Amp. I've heard stories of Model T's coming equipped in 73 with the KT88's... then again, they could have been referring to the 6550's.. yikes, history is fun.
MAXIMUM VOLUME YIELDS MAXIMUM GOATS

1974 Sunn Model T
1975 Sunn Model T
2 Sunn 412L cabs