200S Blueprints ?

[CLD]

I have a K-140 in my Kustom Charger combo and it sounds really nice.

[Greg_M]

Greg,  When I was looking for 1960's D-130's for my 230B Sentura II clone cabs I found that they were very expensive - even the baskets went for a premium.  I bought 4, 1970's "K" series, and am very, very happy with the sound.  Physically the frames and the magnet bell of the K's look exactly the same as the "D", except they're black instead of grey, and I think that the connecting posts are a little different.  There were a couple of improvements in the motor design from the "D" to the "K" series; the gap is a couple thousandths" wider and the K's had the start of what JBL called "Field Focused Geometry" that was prevelant in the "E" series.  Also the cone has a cloth surround as opposed to paper as in the "D" series.    The frequency response of the K-140 is the same as the D-140; 40-2500 Hz, but it handles more power; 150 watts RMS as opposed to 100 - 125 W for the "D".  Some guitar people I've talked to swear that the paper surround cone sounds better than the cloth surround cone...but I can't tell the difference.  maybe that's because I play keyboards and not guitar or bass.

Rob

Well that opens up the field even more!
I'll keep my eyes open for one of those as well
Thanks

[HRobert]

Greg,

Check ebay, I believe that there is at least one K-140 on there.

Rob

[EdBass]

As far as OEM cones and motors, I think the K's are my personal favorite AlNiCo JBLs. The best balance of power handling vs. sensitivity and tone IMO. I have a pair in this 2000S rig, and they rock.



Compared side by side with a D140 loaded 2000S cab the cab is a little tighter on the bottom than the D's and less prone to "farting" when you get ambitious with the volume or bass knobs. Of course, like most things it's a tradeoff; none of the old AlNiCos can touch modern drivers when it comes to power handling, and IMO none of the modern drivers can touch the old drivers when it comes to pure tone.
But, I digress...
For this 200S project it would be sacrilegious to even consider anything except for an AlNiCo JBL. Besides, your options are physically limited. Because of the porting there is very little room for magnets when you rear load the drivers in a 200S cab.

[D.M.N.]

I'll weigh in for K-140s. I don't think you can really go wrong with them, they're just great speakers. I have them loaded in my 2000s cab, and they are just fantastic: not muddy or boomy, just tight and BIG sounding, quite clear. I think mine cost $125 each? Which I think is a great investment, compared to buying current production speakers. I looked around for other options similar to the JBLs, and US Speaker recommends BEYMA 15MI100, but those are $230, so I'll stick with my old JBLs, thanks.


Also, EdBass............everytime I see that picture I die a little on the inside.......from envy.....and GAS. It's all so CLEAN.

[EdBass]

Also, EdBass............everytime I see that picture I die a little on the inside.......from envy.....and GAS. It's all so CLEAN.

Thats a flattering picture, like the fuzzy focus effect that aging personalities sometimes use. Up close she's a little "rough around the edges".

Forum memeber johnK has the cleanest collection of Sunn, Ampegs and other "to die for" gear I've ever seen. His stuff makes mine look like a garage sale!

[EdBass]

First, a disclaimer;
I am by no means carpentry oriented. I'm an electronics dude. If I needed a 200S box made, I would drop the one pictured off at a wood shop and say "Make me one of these".
With that in mind, here we go…

A is 24”
B is 40”
C is 15”
D is 4,25”
E is 3.25”
F is Uhmmm Oops, forgot to measure “F”
G I have absolutely no idea how to measure the angle of the board, but the distance from the beginning of the angle in a straight line to end of the board (if it were just a straight board) is 9.25” (real hard to measure accurately though)
H is 3.5” to the outside of the furring

The baffle board is actually baffle boards. There are two. and the gap between them is what forms the port opening (which obviously does in fact run the width of the cab, unlike the cab you obtained)





The center board you added in red is attached to the cabinet, and measures 5” wide. Unlike the ducting, it is made with the same .75” plywood as the rest of the cabinet.




There is a recessed .75” X .75” furring mounted .75” deep that frames the inside of the entire cabinet both front and back. The ducting is only .5” thick, vs. the .75” thick construction of the rest of the cab, and runs the width of the cabinet.

The back has a pair reinforcing boards which I also didn't measure, but they are about .75” X 1.25”



I hope that this is helpful, and sorry about the stuff I forgot to measure. The bad news is that the cab is tucked back in its hole, and it will be a while before I get another opportunity to drag it out and measure.
Hopefully you can use CAD wizardry to recreate the missing pieces.

[Greg_M]

It's all helpful !

But without either the length or the angle the 1/2" pieces could be anything.

The other distance is the distance between the very front of the cabinet and the front of the baffle board(s). (I get 1-1/4" on my box)

Thank you for your efforts

[EdBass]

I'm pretty sure that the cabinet you just obtained isn't any Sunn cabinet I've ever seen, it looks like a home made attempt at a 200S. I would imagine that any dimensions it shares with a 200S would just be a coincidence.
I have other loaded but accessible 200S cabinets that I can get the front of cabinet to baffle from. So if I get that and the F measurement, that's all you need to complete the CAD?

[Greg_M]

The radius on the outside edges would be helpful.

Oh yah....... I need the dimension of the red board in the drawing that the back screws to

Distance from the very front of the cabinet to the front of the speaker baffle

I think you're right about this being an attempt to copy. The sticker from BandStand music is interesting though.
The wife and I stripped the old painted vinyl off this morning.
Whatever it is, it's vintage.

I think I might sand it down and mess with it a little, but not recover it for a while and see if anything else comes along




They used nails to hold a lot of this together while the glue dried
The extra layer of plywood around the front to be specific. I was just going to run a router around the inside to take that 1/4" off so it is 1-1/4" but those nail heads will mess up my router bit pretty quick

[Greg_M]

Here's an interesting bit from Conrad in an interview


This design came to me in the twilight of my sleep. I don not have any drawings of the cabinet, but I do have a memory of its construction. The cabinet's external dimensions are 24" wide, 36" tall and 15" deep. A 1/2" plywood liner was placed on the inside front edge of the cabinet to make it look "beefy". The port in the 2 X 15" cabinet was 5" high and ran the entire width of the cabinet. The horn baffle was formed out of two pieces of 1/2" plywood. The horizontal piece being about 3 to 3-1/2" in depth and the 45 degree angle piece being 9" long. On the dual 15" cabinet there were two baffle assemblies. The 1/2" plywood horn baffle pieces were glued into routed grooves in the sides of the cabinet. The single 15" was simply 1/2 of the dual 15" cabinet with the port at the bottom of the cabinet with a single horn baffle assembly. I could sketch it for you but no draw capabilities on this e-mail response mechanism. I would be more than happy to send you a sketch.

Using the 9" at 45° mentioned, it comes out just about right, if the distance from the very front of the cabinet to the baffle board is 1-1/4"

http://www.richbriere.com/The_Sunn_Shack.htm
bottom of the page

[EdBass]

The radius on the outside edges would be helpful.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I mean, I know what a radius is; geometry wasn’t that long ago, but I don’t know what you are asking for specifically.

Oh yah....... I need the dimension of the red board in the drawing that the back screws to

As is evident in the photos, it runs the width of the cabinet

The center board you added in red is attached to the cabinet, and measures 5” wide. Unlike the ducting, it is made with the same .75” plywood as the rest of the cabinet.

Distance from the very front of the cabinet to the front of the speaker baffle

As I mentioned, that’s an easy one, I’ve got 200S cabs handy, but they are loaded and buttoned up, and I’m not real inclined to tear into one when I already have one opened up.
I can get that measurement just by using a toothpick through the grillcloth.

I have other loaded but accessible 200S cabinets that I can get the front of cabinet to baffle from.

By the way, the grills on my 200S’s are firmly screwed into place from the inside of the cabinet. This is a picture of a 2000S cabinet, but it’s the same way on my 200S cabs.



The 200S cabs owned by JohnK and CLD posted in your “A Hit or A Miss? 200S” threads have Velcro attached grills. I’m not sure what’s up with that, if maybe Sunn started using Velcro after a while, or if the cabs were modified over the years.
All of my 200S cabs, Sonic l-40, and all but one of my 2000S cabs are screwed on from the back. The 2000S cab that has Velcro was converted, because it also has screw holes where it was screwed on from the back originally.

I think you're right about this being an attempt to copy. The sticker from BandStand music is interesting though.

 The baffle and porting are not Sunn. Unless it’s maybe a converted 100S cab or some other Sunn cab that didn’t originally have a 215 configuration, or possibly a Sorado cab converted to a center port design, I’d go with a do it yourselfer. It looks a little funny dimensionally though, like it’s either too skinny or too tall to be a Sunn box.
What are the exterior dimensions?

[Greg_M]

When they made the cabinets they used a router to round the edges of the cabinets so they are not square. I am wondering what router bit the used to round the edges.
1/4" or 5/16" or 3/8"  etc

The dimension (I need) of "the red board" is how wide it is from front to back. I understand that it goes all the way from one side to the other and that it is made of 3/4" plywood, I just need to know that last dimension. The front to back dimension.

I'm going to assume (which I hate to do) that the baffle boards are 1-1/4" from the very front of the cabinet. If the frame that the grill cloth is stapled to is 3/4" material that would leave a distance of 1/2" from the grill cloth to the very front of the cabinet (minus the velcro if used)

The exterior dimensions of the box I have are 42" x 24" x 15" only 2" taller. What helps to make it look too tall is the extra thick plywood frame on the front. It measures 1-1/2" instead of 1-1/4" That extra 1/4" makes a lot of difference in the looks.
What Sunn did was to take and glue in an extra piece of 1/2" plywood around the front to make the walls look thicker. What who ever built this cabinet did was to use a some pieces of 3/4" plywood which accounts for the extra 1/4" of thickness. It throws off the ratio and it makes them look too fat

[CLD]

That's right, my late '70 200S cab has the front-mounting grill - unlike my 1971 Sorado cabs, which have the grill cloth fastened to the baffle on the inside.

Greg M, if it's just a matter of measuring something from the front, I'll work from the above post and see what I can find based on my cab.