Author Topic: So what if I.......  (Read 7902 times)

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Offline Greg_M

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So what if I.......
« on: September 18, 2010, 02:54:23 pm »
It would be nice to have some folded horn design software.....

I'm wondering what would change if I made a 200S cabinet another 3" deep. So the overall depth would be 18".

It would slick to have some kind of spread sheet/GUI program that would let you do things like move the back out a ways or lengthen the horn, or use different drivers etc etc.

I made a couple of cabinets that were sort of like the 200s but were deeper and didn't have the 1/2" thick "wings" of the 200s. They used Altec drivers. They were amazing. But I don't know why.

Anybody know if there is such software?

Offline noel

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2010, 07:44:35 am »
It'd be cool but I think cabinet design is more art than science.  The original design came to Conrad in a dream apparently...

Offline EdBass

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 10:42:11 am »
WinISD will compute basic sealed, vented or bandpass cabinet designs based on driver T/S parameters.

As I see it, the problem with using design software to build MI (Musical Instrument) enclosures is that it's real hard to listen to a drawing to see if it actually sounds good.
Software is great to help design a "flat" box, and flat boxes aren't a bad place to start, but the "art" comes into play when you are trying to make that box sound good for the application it is intended for.

For example;
Any player with "big league" live experience is familiar with "white" noise, or even more commonly now days "pink" noise. Simplified, white noise is even amplitude within a specified bandwidth; pink noise is balanced energy between octaves. The actual parameters are a lot more complex, if you ever want to be bored senseless, or are having trouble falling asleep, look it up.
There is also "red" noise, which is actually called "Brownian" noise.
Now, before you smoke and robes guys get too excited, No; it has nothing to do with the "brown" note:-D
But I digress. As many people know, a speaker enclosure is not simply the box holding the driver(s), rather it’s everything between the driver and infinity. The room a speaker cab is in can have nearly as much influence over its response as the cab itself, and most of us have battled standing waves, reflected highs, feedback, etc. induced by the rooms we are playing in. When you set up a big league sound system, it’s common practice to white or pink the venue to get a “flat” basis for the FOH person to work from. This involves sending the chosen noise through the system at gig volumes and using a RTA to balance the response; kill “hot” feedback inducing frequencies, boost weak frequencies, and so on.
From this “flat” base, the art of the sound engineer comes into play. A flat room sounds flat, sort of like the way distilled water tastes flat.

Anyway, it’s a similar scenario designing speaker cabs. Using design software is akin to “pinking” a venue. A good place to start, but a truly “flat” cab normally sounds nondescript, no definition, doesn’t “sit in the mix” well.
A normal 412 guitar cab is a joke from a “hi-fi” flat perspective, but they can sure sound great to the human ear. The venerable 810 SVT cab will thump you like you were punched in the chest with a high powered amp and a bass guitar, and are frequently described as having a very strong bottom end; but in reality its response drops like it fell of a table at around 100hz.

So, speaker design software is a useful tool, and a whole lot of fun to play with, but isn’t even close to the end all, be all when designing MI cabs.
IMO it is indeed an art. To be good at it, you have to have the experience to visualize what’s going on in that box, and probably have wasted enough plywood to build a house.

Oh, and one more thing; designing commercially viable cabinets also needs to take into consideration the physical dimensions. It should be a size that packs well, and the higher fuel costs get, the more important this is in designing pro gear.
Here’s an interesting question to get everyone thinking; does anyone know why a standard “rack mounted” component is always 19” wide?


Offline HRobert

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2010, 05:48:47 pm »
Greg,

I believe that Parts Express - parts-express.com - has a couple of software programs for designing speaker cabinets.  I can't remember if it's just for guitar or if they have one for bass cabs and sub woofers.  Check them out, they also have a lotof other great stuff too.

Rob

Offline D.M.N.

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 11:21:36 pm »

Here’s an interesting question to get everyone thinking; does anyone know why a standard “rack mounted” component is always 19” wide?

Because that was the length of the first "rack component" designers forearm?
House of the Rising Sunn........
-----------------------------------
1969 2000s
1972 2000s
1970 1200s
1968 1000s
1969 200s
2010 2000s DIY 2x15
1971 2000s 2x15
1969 2000s 2x15
1972 2000s 2x15
1968 1000s 2x15
1970 1200s 6x12

Offline EdBass

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 07:16:08 am »
Greg,

I believe that Parts Express - parts-express.com - has a couple of software programs for designing speaker cabinets.  I can't remember if it's just for guitar or if they have one for bass cabs and sub woofers.  Check them out, they also have a lotof other great stuff too.

Rob

WinISD is free. Sorry, I forgot a link;
http://www.linearteam.dk/


Offline EdBass

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 08:14:05 am »

Here’s an interesting question to get everyone thinking; does anyone know why a standard “rack mounted” component is always 19” wide?

Because that was the length of the first "rack component" designers forearm?

Excellent guess, but not the reason.

Here’s a hint; the question popped into my mind while I was typing the paragraph with this in it.

It should be a size that packs well

Also, it’s not music related.

Offline D.M.N.

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 11:51:43 pm »
Not the width of a milk crate......the average width of a cars backseat?
House of the Rising Sunn........
-----------------------------------
1969 2000s
1972 2000s
1970 1200s
1968 1000s
1969 200s
2010 2000s DIY 2x15
1971 2000s 2x15
1969 2000s 2x15
1972 2000s 2x15
1968 1000s 2x15
1970 1200s 6x12

Offline meltdown

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 06:16:59 am »
Just a guess but could be the way to pack a semi trailer to maximize the packing of the cabs to fit the standard width of the trailer....?
Sunn 2000S bass head with (2) 2x15 cabs with JBL speakers.  Fender Jazz bass Special is primary bass with a 61 Hofner Cavern Bass as backup.  Also have an Ampeg B-15n flip top amp as well.

Offline EdBass

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 08:24:45 am »
Just a guess but could be the way to pack a semi trailer to maximize the packing of the cabs to fit the standard width of the trailer....?

I think we have a winner! It was to fit 4 across into early transport vehicles either prior to the phone companies adopting the larger 23" rack size in the 30's or 40's and/or to house the standard 19" width railroad switch relays.
Regardless; it was based on the size of the transport vehicles, something that is paid close attention to when manufacturers design pro speaker cabinets.

Offline scotzoid

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Re: So what if I.......
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2010, 12:46:30 am »
Just a guess but could be the way to pack a semi trailer to maximize the packing of the cabs to fit the standard width of the trailer....?

I think we have a winner! It was to fit 4 across into early transport vehicles either prior to the phone companies adopting the larger 23" rack size in the 30's or 40's and/or to house the standard 19" width railroad switch relays.
Regardless; it was based on the size of the transport vehicles, something that is paid close attention to when manufacturers design pro speaker cabinets.
Ed, that reminds of an pass-it-on email I once saw, too long to go into detail here, but it traced the width of all modern roadways back to ancient Rome, where the roads were built according to the width of 2 horses side by side pulling carts...the moral of the story being, if you've ever come up against some arbitrary regulation, & suspected some horse's a$$ was the source, you're probably right!   :roll: