sunn amp tech question

[tacklebox455]

I have asked here before but never really got a good answeri have looked at both schematic's for 1st gen and 2nd gen model t's but i have yet to see the difference in them other than the mid select switch can anyone tell me of know the difference in them theres got to be something the tone is different when going form the 1st gen to the 2nd gen, i'm asking this for 2 reasons 1 i'm looking to build a 1st gen since i stumbled upon NOS electronics for sunn model t's and 2 i just wanna know so i can quit scratching my head and screaming at the schematics.  if anyone see's conrad or talks to him ask him to comment i'm sure he would know the difference.  on a side note if i had a friend or knew someone with a 1st gen i would just look at the guts but since i dont thats why i ask but just in case if you live in north alabama and would'nt mind me taking a look at the inside of your 1st gen up close and personal i would greatly appericate it .

[Isaac]

First, punctuation is your friend. And if not yours, then certainly mine. It would make your post immeasurably easier to read. Paragraphs help, too.

The differences between the 1st and 2nd generation Model T amps lie mainly in the mid select and tone circuitry.  The mid control is a boost and it is always on. The control merely determines how much boost you get. Turning it to zero does not get rid of the boost.

The tone controls on the 2nd gen are boost and cut controls, like those on a hi-fi stereo amp, whereas the 1st gen tone controls are boost only, like conventional guitar amp tone controls. So, for flattest response on most amps, set the tone controls to zero. On the 2nd gen, set the treble and bass to 5, the mid to zero.

Finally, there is a strange bit of wiring in the master volume circuitry on the 2nd gen involving a white/blue wire which causes the output to go down when you turn the master up past 8. I don't know why it's in there.

I got all this information from Joe Arthur, a very knowledgeable fellow who used to hang out here.

On my 2nd gen T, I removed the white/blue wire, which made the master volume work as one would normally expect, and modified the mid boost circuit so that the boost is zero when the control is at zero, per Joe Arthur's instructions. IMO, it sounds much, much better now.

[EdBass]

First, punctuation is your friend. And if not yours, then certainly mine. It would make your post immeasurably easier to read. Paragraphs help, too.

Amen. It's very hard to follow.

Although I think the Model T didn't come out until a few years after Mr. Sundholm had sold the company to Hartzell. Of course, regretfully Mr Hartzell is no longer with us so you can't ask him, except maybe in a seance.
If I'm not mistaken, there were however some Hartzell era employees that used to hang out here however.

[tacklebox455]

thanks so much for the replys this helps greatly,
issac i have done the white blue wire mod myself took it completely out of the circuit and as you said master volume works as it should.

with my mid switch i noticed that between the 750 and 1.5 k mark if i get it between them its like its at zero could be wrong.
so from what i understand here is you can mod a 2nd gen but it will never be a 1st gen and to build my own 1st gen i'm gonna have to see a first gen guts.

thanks again i tried to make it easier to read