Author Topic: Transducers- Guitar & Bass  (Read 13154 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hayseed

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25
Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« on: January 29, 2011, 11:24:43 pm »
Is there any difference in Sunn Transducers marked Bass transducer or Guitar Transducer? The one in my new cab says "Guitar" but a guy i know has one Marked "Bass" and both are 15". Meaning: can the one moarked "guitar" be used for bass? Are they the same speaker?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 09:47:48 am by hayseed »

Offline Isaac

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,904
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2011, 09:56:02 am »
Do they look the same? If not, they're different. If so, they could still be different. They probably have the same magnet structure and frame, but the cones could be different, and so could the voice coils.

So, to answer your question: I don't know.
Isaac

Offline hayseed

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2011, 10:10:14 am »
Thanks.

As far as i know that is all that is written on them. I was just curious as to why a Guitar speaker was in the Bass cab.

Offline EdBass

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 10:08:46 am »
I'm not sure what cab you are referring to, but are you sure it's a bass cab? Old Sunns kind of blur the distinction between the two, and with some the only difference is the driver itself.

Offline hayseed

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 11:28:56 am »
It is a 68(?) 2x15 which i had assumed it to be a bass cab. The speakers are directly above each other.

Offline CLD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
  • Sunn Sorado
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 02:26:22 pm »
Add to this my question from a couple of years ago, which I posted in the Conrad section but he never answered:

I recently opened up the back of my 215 cabinet that I bought new at Quigley Music in Kansas City in June 1971.  It came with a Sorado head, and I still have the original vinyl covers.  (There are photos with my post in the Q&A section if you're interested.)

To my shock and amazement this cabinet's speakers have round black labels with GUITAR TRANSDUCER and have no identifying codes on the outside of the baskets.  A second cabinet I bought used last year has square-black-label BASS TRANSDUCERS and have the following codes on them: 81.0010 and 67.7132.  I believe they were made by Eminence in the 32nd week of 1971.

Was I sold the wrong cabinet with my Sorado?  Or were "guitar transducers" also used for bass cabs?  (The sound always has been outstanding, so this possibility never even crossed my mind.)  Both cabinets sound great by themselves or together; one is just slightly louder than the other.  But it bugs me to think Quigley might have sold me the wrong cabinet with the Sorado head.  

---

I'm still currious about this, too.  :?

 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 01:30:46 pm by CLD »
Sunn since June 1971!
1971 Sorado, 2000S, Coliseum Bass, Coliseum Lead
1970 200S; 1974 Coliseum 880

Offline hayseed

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2011, 10:16:52 pm »
^^^^This is the same scenario and question only with a bit more history behind it. Very cool. I really hope we can get an answer to this!

Offline Dean_Christian

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 11:06:15 am »
I can help shed a little light, maybe...  Recently I was at my favorite speaker shop (Nick's Speaker Shop in Boardman, Ohio.  Nick was tech at Electric Ladyland Studios and has some really cool speakers and stuff).  Sorry, got off topic.  OK, so I was over there wanting to rebuild some EV SRO bass speakers and told him I also had some EV 15L's out of a guitar cabinet I was going to use for mids on a PA system I was building.  Nick told me he could use the same cones out of the SROs and do either the SROs or the 15Ls and modify to play bass through them.  He told me the only difference was that EV milled out the bass speakers another 1/4" to allow the cone to dig deeper in range and get the bass signals.  Makes sense to me, because if you look at the low end frequency between a guitar speaker and a bass equivalent in the same speaker family you are only talking very little difference on the bottom end number.

I knew a guy (me) who used SRO guitar speakers and played bass for a long time with them, just couldn't hit lows too hard and played a little trebly, which was OK for how and what volume level I played in those days.

Offline chev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
  • feel the tone!
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 11:49:41 am »
some more info that might help?

One of my Solarus came with his original 1x15'' cab I tought was a bass cab but it had a Guitar Transducers in there (67-7029 was stamped on the magnet), the Sonaro came with his original 1x15'' cab and had a Bass Transducers (155-2 written on the paper cone)

While I was using both 1x15 cabs on the Sonaro, I couldn't really ear a difference between them with either guitar or bass?
Sunn Model T 1st gen+Sunn 215s+Sunn 412s, Sunn Beta Bass+Sunn 215+Sunn Coliseum Slave+2 x Sunn 115

Offline EdBass

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 12:31:40 pm »
I can help shed a little light, maybe...  Recently I was at my favorite speaker shop (Nick's Speaker Shop in Boardman, Ohio.  Nick was tech at Electric Ladyland Studios and has some really cool speakers and stuff).  Sorry, got off topic.  OK, so I was over there wanting to rebuild some EV SRO bass speakers and told him I also had some EV 15L's out of a guitar cabinet I was going to use for mids on a PA system I was building.  Nick told me he could use the same cones out of the SROs and do either the SROs or the 15Ls and modify to play bass through them.  He told me the only difference was that EV milled out the bass speakers another 1/4" to allow the cone to dig deeper in range and get the bass signals.  Makes sense to me, because if you look at the low end frequency between a guitar speaker and a bass equivalent in the same speaker family you are only talking very little difference on the bottom end number.

I knew a guy (me) who used SRO guitar speakers and played bass for a long time with them, just couldn't hit lows too hard and played a little trebly, which was OK for how and what volume level I played in those days.

I actually use EVM15L’s with factory cones in a Sunn 215S cab as well as SRO’s in a 2000S cab, both for bass guitar. I also have EMV15B’s, but IMO the L’s are a little more articulate and tighter on the bottom than the B’s and sound better to my ears. I hit the pair of L’s in the 215S pretty hard with a 225 watt Reeves, I’m not at all shy with the bass knob, and they hold up very well.
I’ve never actually measured the VC gaps, but I’m pretty sure that they share motor structures, ala the JBL D and K 130/140’s, and the E 130/140’s.
I think the differences in response are probably because of differences in cone and suspension rather than any physical differences in the frame and motor assemblies, but as I said I’ve never measured the gaps in my EV’s. I know that the old JBL’s are the same, the differences between a 130, 130F, and a 140 are in the VC/cone assemblies themselves.

I wonder if it’s possible that the Sunn Transducer is a similar story. Maybe the difference is just the cone assembly, or maybe the only difference is just the sticker themselves?
I know that there are “sticker anomalies” in Sunn cabs; I bought the pictured Sceptre cab from the original owner several years ago, and as you can see the stickers are applied crooked, but consistently 45 degrees off; not a little crooked as if possibly someone did it to amuse themselves on a slow day at the factory.



Maybe new member Rex B can shed some light on this, as he was involved in speakers as an electro-acoustic engineer at Sunn, albeit about a decade after the cabs in question.

Offline CLD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
  • Sunn Sorado
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 01:42:54 pm »
That's wild. The next time I have a slow period in the office I'll put all my Post-It notes on at 45 degree angles!
Sunn since June 1971!
1971 Sorado, 2000S, Coliseum Bass, Coliseum Lead
1970 200S; 1974 Coliseum 880

Offline HRobert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 05:01:02 pm »
It is a 68(?) 2x15 which i had assumed it to be a bass cab. The speakers are directly above each other.
In 1968 Sunn made the Spectrum II amp for guitar with a 2 x 15 cab. The cab was the same as the 200S bass cab but had D15S speakers for guitar.


Offline N2000s

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
Re: Transducers- Guitar & Bass
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2011, 05:25:12 pm »
Carter, If it helps, I dont think you were sold the wrong cab since I had the same speakers in my Sorado as well.