Author Topic: 6550s and the Model T  (Read 15844 times)

0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Walt-Dogg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
6550s and the Model T
« on: April 26, 2011, 01:01:58 pm »
Since I woke up too late for class this morning and I've been meaning to ask. What 6550s should I retube my Model T with? Yes I know it's all preference, but I know nothing about 6550s (aside from a tidbit I read about their history), I'm just asking because the previous owner of my T mentioned he was planning on retubing it, until he decided to sell it.

It has in it, what I'm assuming is a matched set of, Sylvania 6550s, what are some opinions on those tubes?

I'm just looking for something mean sounding, as I think the Sylanias are bit sterile sounding.
Gibson Les Paul Special
Electra X260
Squier Precision Bass MIJ
Science Hellhawk 100w
Ampeg VT-22/V-4
Science Mother
Mojotone Bluesbreaker 2x12
Mojotone British 4x12
Ampeg SVT 810

Offline chev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
  • feel the tone!
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2011, 01:28:37 pm »
Since I woke up too late for class this morning and I've been meaning to ask. What 6550s should I retube my Model T with? Yes I know it's all preference, but I know nothing about 6550s (aside from a tidbit I read about their history), I'm just asking because the previous owner of my T mentioned he was planning on retubing it, until he decided to sell it.

It has in it, what I'm assuming is a matched set of, Sylvania 6550s, what are some opinions on those tubes?

I'm just looking for something mean sounding, as I think the Sylanias are bit sterile sounding.

I'm into the process of retubing my Model T myself and decide to go with jj's KT-88 since they work good in my other amps and I've always been told they are solid for the long run.

Tung Sol are apparently good too? Sovtek & EHX are last on my list since you can get better quality for almost the same price.

Don't know about Gold Lions and all the premium grade power tubes but I've always been told they won't do much for instrument amp so why paying twice the price? I wonder.

Perhaps you should look at the preamp tubes to get a specific tone since power tubes only reproduce at high volume whatever the preamp tubes give them.
Sunn Model T 1st gen+Sunn 215s+Sunn 412s, Sunn Beta Bass+Sunn 215+Sunn Coliseum Slave+2 x Sunn 115

Offline Walt-Dogg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 01:33:15 pm »
Since I woke up too late for class this morning and I've been meaning to ask. What 6550s should I retube my Model T with? Yes I know it's all preference, but I know nothing about 6550s (aside from a tidbit I read about their history), I'm just asking because the previous owner of my T mentioned he was planning on retubing it, until he decided to sell it.

It has in it, what I'm assuming is a matched set of, Sylvania 6550s, what are some opinions on those tubes?

I'm just looking for something mean sounding, as I think the Sylanias are bit sterile sounding.

I'm into the process of retubing my Model T myself and decide to go with jj's KT-88 since they work good in my other amps and I've always been told they are solid for the long run.

Tung Sol are apparently good too? Sovtek & EHX are last on my list since you can get better quality for almost the same price.

Don't know about Gold Lions and all the premium grade power tubes but I've always been told they won't do much for instrument amp so why paying twice the price? I wonder.

Perhaps you should look at the preamp tubes to get a specific tone since power tubes only reproduce at high volume whatever the preamp tubes give them.
That would be a good point. Also interested in KT88s too I guess. Regardless of the pre-amp tubes I don't want it to sound too dark. And as for pre-amp tubes, since the Model T only has 3 tubes in it's pre-amp what would be suggested I'm guessing mine has 12AX7s like it would normally.
Gibson Les Paul Special
Electra X260
Squier Precision Bass MIJ
Science Hellhawk 100w
Ampeg VT-22/V-4
Science Mother
Mojotone Bluesbreaker 2x12
Mojotone British 4x12
Ampeg SVT 810

Offline Eppilogue

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2011, 01:49:22 pm »
You're dropping the Concert Lead, Walt-Dogg?

Offline chev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
  • feel the tone!
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2011, 02:03:33 pm »
yes it's suppose to be three 12AX7 if I'm right, somebody on the forum could confirm this.

I've found this old thread on talkbass about 6550 vs KT-88:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/6550-vs-kt88-136878/

some would say the KT-88 has more headroom since they dissipate more wattage and current than the 6550? so you get a louder & fuller clean tone before saturation if their's any, put whatever dirt you like in front and it will push it. But the tones will always be a matter of what circuit you put them in I think. so preamp tubes basically...

I've tried some JAN 7051, 12AT7, and EHX 12AY7 in my Solarus and went with the EHX 12AY7 (only 1 preamp tube) in my 2 Solarus with jj's KT-88 and it sounds nice. It lowers the preamp gain to have a more usable volume pot that works like a master volume...before was at 1.5-2, now it's more at 4 so it sounds more like the amp is working.

The Model T has a control on the preamp stage so it might not be needed to change the preamp gain factor but a different 12AX7 brand could be use to change the tone...just the 1st of the 3 will make the most noticeable difference from what I've gathered.

I'm supposed to have my T back this wkd with a full jj's overhaul and the KT-88 installed! I will ear it myself and post a clip or something! :-)
Sunn Model T 1st gen+Sunn 215s+Sunn 412s, Sunn Beta Bass+Sunn 215+Sunn Coliseum Slave+2 x Sunn 115

Offline stanner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
    • s t a n o s a u r
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2011, 02:06:28 pm »
here is what WINO does: -"a renowned tone hound, Wino says the foundation of his sound is "a Les Paul guitar w/ DiMarzio Super Distortion Pickups plugged straight into a Sunn Model T amplifier. To give his tone that extra-special touch, he swaps out the stock Sunn tubes w/ Svetlana 6550s power tubes and Electro-Harmonix preamp tubes. "That is really the heart of the sound" he says. "because it's like a fuzz box in a preamp tube."
AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER

Offline Walt-Dogg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2011, 02:07:05 pm »
You're dropping the Concert Lead, Walt-Dogg?
Been trying to drop it for the past month!

chev/stanner: I think my problem is is that the amp sounds too tight with Sylvania 6550s and I don't know what pre-amp tubes off hand aside from being 12AX7s. I'll have a chance to play with my T this weekend and I can give more details (tubes, what it sounds like, what I like, what I don't like) because for some reason when I picked up the T, I had every intention to open it up, check the inspection date, check all the tubes and take pictures then play it like no tomorrow to get a good feel for the tone but I was so busy I never got the chance.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 02:18:02 pm by Walt-Dogg »
Gibson Les Paul Special
Electra X260
Squier Precision Bass MIJ
Science Hellhawk 100w
Ampeg VT-22/V-4
Science Mother
Mojotone Bluesbreaker 2x12
Mojotone British 4x12
Ampeg SVT 810

Offline chev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
  • feel the tone!
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 02:23:16 pm »
here is what WINO does: -"a renowned tone hound, Wino says the foundation of his sound is "a Les Paul guitar w/ DiMarzio Super Distortion Pickups plugged straight into a Sunn Model T amplifier. To give his tone that extra-special touch, he swaps out the stock Sunn tubes w/ Svetlana 6550s power tubes and Electro-Harmonix preamp tubes. "That is really the heart of the sound" he says. "because it's like a fuzz box in a preamp tube."


cool info, thanks for sharing.
Sunn Model T 1st gen+Sunn 215s+Sunn 412s, Sunn Beta Bass+Sunn 215+Sunn Coliseum Slave+2 x Sunn 115

Offline chev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
  • feel the tone!
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2011, 03:14:10 pm »
found this thread too:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=563883

some don't recommend KT-88 over 6550 but I guess I'll have to ear it for myself.
Sunn Model T 1st gen+Sunn 215s+Sunn 412s, Sunn Beta Bass+Sunn 215+Sunn Coliseum Slave+2 x Sunn 115

Offline Walt-Dogg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2011, 05:59:10 pm »
found this thread too:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=563883

some don't recommend KT-88 over 6550 but I guess I'll have to ear it for myself.
Thanks!
Gibson Les Paul Special
Electra X260
Squier Precision Bass MIJ
Science Hellhawk 100w
Ampeg VT-22/V-4
Science Mother
Mojotone Bluesbreaker 2x12
Mojotone British 4x12
Ampeg SVT 810

Offline sunn-tanned

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 76
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2011, 07:52:07 pm »
From what I've been hearing all around the line up would be;
Winged C's (best)
 or JJ's,


Since I woke up too late for class this morning and I've been meaning to ask. What 6550s should I retube my Model T with? Yes I know it's all preference, but I know nothing about 6550s (aside from a tidbit I read about their history), I'm just asking because the previous owner of my T mentioned he was planning on retubing it, until he decided to sell it.

It has in it, what I'm assuming is a matched set of, Sylvania 6550s, what are some opinions on those tubes?

I'm just looking for something mean sounding, as I think the Sylanias are bit sterile sounding.

Offline Walt-Dogg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2011, 09:47:53 pm »
I don't quite understand this "Winged C" stuff, I know it has to do with triodes? I'm thinking EHs from Doug's Tubes. But I dunno. We'll see after I get everything tested this weekend.
Gibson Les Paul Special
Electra X260
Squier Precision Bass MIJ
Science Hellhawk 100w
Ampeg VT-22/V-4
Science Mother
Mojotone Bluesbreaker 2x12
Mojotone British 4x12
Ampeg SVT 810

Offline EdBass

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2011, 10:47:07 pm »
I recently was involved in a "wide open" test between JJ KT88's and Winged C 6550's. The main mule amp was a Morgan MP200, a pretty clean, straightforward circuit; it came from the factory with the quad of JJ's. My buddy bought the Morgan to use when his SVT rig is too much; we used his gig cabinets for the Reeves 400 tests.

http://sunn.ampage.org/sdp/index.php/topic,6005.msg25569.html#msg25569

Anyway, he plays dimed, likes heavy power tube saturation, and wasn't at all happy with what he was getting out of the Morgan with the KT88's. Joe Morgan suggested 6550's, so he biased up a quad of Winged C's and fired it up. I thought it wouldn't make much difference, and they were very similar up to the point that they started to saturate.
You have to remember the specification that these tubes were designed to; distortion was the enemy. The goal was to stay clean as loud as possible, and the KT88 was arguably considered the "king" of the big output tubes.
However, what we found was that at the ragged edge the KT88 was too good. They certainly stayed cleaner louder, but they seemed to fight breaking up until they collapsed all at once, kind of harsh when they finally let go. The 6550's were much smoother going into saturation, and seemed more "musical" when they were totally wound up, easier to find a heavily saturated sweet spot.

Not what I'm looking for in my amps, I like a big clean dynamic with a little grind, sometimes a little hairy, but not balls to the wall. The KT88’s suit me best, I run JJ’s and GT’s in my big Sunns, Gold Lions in my Reeves C225, but I have put a quad of 6550’s in one of my 2000S’s just to try it out.
As far as what’s best among the KT88’s I’ve used, The original GEC’s rule, the Winged C’s and the Gold Lions are very good for current production, GT’s have treated me well, EH’s are a little inconsistent in my experience, but I think JJ’s are just dandy; good sounding, reasonably priced and along with the Winged C’s the only KT88’s I’ve never had a premature failure with.
Probably the most important thing is making sure the rest of your amp is healthy, the best tube in the world won’t cure a poorly maintained circuit. Spend your money making sure your amp is “right” before you drop a wad on fancy glass.

That’s what my experience has been, of course your results may vary…

Offline Walt-Dogg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2011, 11:53:30 pm »
Yes, I reread back up in the winged C. I'm not quite sure about the headroom mentioned with available Svetlana winged Cs. I plan on getting the T checked up sometime this Saturday or Sunday, and if not, mid-May when I come back home again from school.
Gibson Les Paul Special
Electra X260
Squier Precision Bass MIJ
Science Hellhawk 100w
Ampeg VT-22/V-4
Science Mother
Mojotone Bluesbreaker 2x12
Mojotone British 4x12
Ampeg SVT 810