Author Topic: 6550s and the Model T  (Read 15821 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Isaac

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,904
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2011, 10:41:14 am »
chev, it's not the KT88 that's working against the distortion, it's the amplifier's circuitry itself. It works the same way with 6550's. However, as the tubes are slightly different, the results may be slightly different as well.
Isaac

Offline EdBass

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2011, 02:07:40 pm »
chev, it's not the KT88 that's working against the distortion, it's the amplifier's circuitry itself. It works the same way with 6550's. However, as the tubes are slightly different, the results may be slightly different as well.

+1
Another thing to remember is the era when these circuits were designed, tubes weren’t considered the magic mojo holy grail glass bottles they are now, they were in freakin’ EVERYTHING. Until the advances in transistor technology in the early - mid 70’s or so vacuum tubes were how you amplified signals, from radio stations to television sets, portable radios (including car radios); including of course MI amplifiers. Even the computers of the day used vacuum tubes.
The point of this is that tubes were pretty much considered just another component rather than being thought upon as some miracle tone changer like they are today. I think this is for a few reasons, most notably the fact that they are now rare and expensive, and also because they are fun to talk about and an easy modification for the neophyte “techie” musician to do themselves. It’s far easier to swap out a tube and feel like you’ve done something to modify your amp as opposed to modifying the circuit itself and actually making a significant tonal difference in the response characteristics.
I’m not suggesting that there is no tonal difference between tubes; there is. Different tubes have different tonal characteristics, but as far as the design specification for any particular amp; even more so when referring to the era of amps that are being discussed here, the only real critical numbers were plate dissipation, voltage requirements/restrictions, etc. rather than the now popular discussions regarding which 12AX7 sounds better, or whether a 6550 or a KT88 is better or distorts more. As far as the tubes being mainly discussed in this thread, 6550’s and KT88’s are pretty much interchangeable in any circuit designed around either tube, the nuances between them are almost negligible to the ear, provided of course that the tubes are equally “fresh” and up to spec.

NOT nonexistent; “almost negligible”.

I have 2000S heads that are identical except for one using GT KT88’s and one using GT 6550’s, same SS rectifiers, same filter cap mods, same grounding circuit, etc., even both biased the same. Guess what? I can’t tell you which one I’m playing without looking.  The KT88 is louder, but; when I swap out the tubes between them the 6550 one becomes the louder amp, so IMO it’s attributable to the nuances inherent between any hand built PTP type amps.





Now, for anyone interested in a more in depth explanation of what’s going on in your amp, as well as a better illustration of why the circuit rather than the tubes have to major influence over the distortion characteristics of the majority of amplifiers discussed on this forum, here’s some more information.
I’m not a huge fan of Wikipedia as a reference, but this article seems to be a relatively easy to grasp description of the function of “negative feedback” in controlling the non-linearity (distortion) of the amps being discussed here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_feedback_amplifier

As Isaac mentions, the circuit itself fights the distortion that is seemingly being sought after in this thread, and as I posted earlier in this thread distortion was the enemy in the design specification of these amps from the very beginning; when they were initially designed to be as clean as the technology of the day could make them.

Here’s some more. The reason that this is all in the forefront of my mind is that as I type this I’m right in the middle of testing a “dirty” bass amp design for Reeves Amplification. Their C225 bass amp is exceptionally linear (clean), maybe even too clean for a lot of players who prefer the grit of an SVT or Orange AD200, so I currently have a stock C225 with some adjustable features added that allow me to “dial a dirt” on the fly using pots to vary the amount of feedback and additional front end gain in the circuit itself. 
In reference to this thread and more specifically Isaac’s post, over the last couple of months we have pretty much exhausted trying various KT88/6550 output tubes, biases and voltages to get the amp to “dirty up”.

Offline chev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
  • feel the tone!
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2011, 05:01:44 pm »
thanks for the link and clarifying things.

So I get a better control over dirt with the preamp level adjustment on the ModelT then, compare to the «volume & clean only» older era like the Solarus.

But the Solarus can still sound impressive with the proper settings to achieve the kind of dirty tone I'm after, but just not as easy as the T!

cheers!

Sunn Model T 1st gen+Sunn 215s+Sunn 412s, Sunn Beta Bass+Sunn 215+Sunn Coliseum Slave+2 x Sunn 115

Offline tacklebox455

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
  • meh'
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2011, 06:59:21 pm »
i would like to add that new sensor owns most tube brands now check out there website and you can see which ones they own as far as my choice i use sevtlanna for 6L6 and tung sol 6550's
1975 Sunn model T
2007Crate Blue voodoo BV 120(mercury magnetics upgraded)
Randall RT 503
Jet City JCA 22H
Creepy fingers harakiri superfuzz
Creepy fingers doomidrive
Earthbound Audio supercollider
Malekko Plus Ultra 213

Offline clodo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 76
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2011, 10:53:05 pm »
And for you which is better? tungsol 6550 or JJ6550

Offline tacklebox455

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
  • meh'
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2011, 11:21:46 pm »
JJ's give you a brighter tone good for a very clean amp or style playing even 80's hair era sound. So I don't care for them .

Tung sol has a more even tone with a slight upper mid which I like for doom,sludge,and metal the new tung sol 6550's sound almost spot on with NOS tung sols again which is what I like to me the tung sol has more balls I guess would be a good word for it I would say if you do order a quad order from musicians friend they will back them up if there unmatched or bad I've never had a problem returning tubes with them.   Soft set for doom or metal mid or high break set for cleans and blues



Hope this helps
1975 Sunn model T
2007Crate Blue voodoo BV 120(mercury magnetics upgraded)
Randall RT 503
Jet City JCA 22H
Creepy fingers harakiri superfuzz
Creepy fingers doomidrive
Earthbound Audio supercollider
Malekko Plus Ultra 213

Offline chev

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
  • feel the tone!
Re: 6550s and the Model T
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2011, 06:19:37 am »
I guess I'll have to try a pair of tung sol next and what happen with the brightness...?

For now, the Model T treble is at 0! ;)

I get all the brightness from the Solarus with treble on 7-8, makes a good blend of balls and screaming mid/highs.
Sunn Model T 1st gen+Sunn 215s+Sunn 412s, Sunn Beta Bass+Sunn 215+Sunn Coliseum Slave+2 x Sunn 115