Chaining a 200s thru a Concert Bass head

[ryco]

Was wondering if this was possible - or even a good idea. Was thinking of using the 200s as a pre and the Concert as a power amp. Running into a Coliseum SPL-8028 cab.

Was wondering which 200s speaker out to run to the Concert head "power amp in" on the rear panel = 4Ω or 8Ω, or does it even matter?

[EdBass]

As I often say, I'm not the most savvy when it comes to transistor Sunns, but...
I doubt that experiment would end well regardless of which output you used on the 200S. I'm guessing lots of smoke, perhaps some sparks and flames. Maybe if you kept the volume WAY down on the 200S, but then what would be the point?

Am I just totally missing something here?   

[shibbz]

I agree, I think that'd be terrible for both amps, probably mostly to the 200s. Unless an amp has a direct out/slave kinda output I wouldn't try to run it with another power amp.

[MammothVolume]

NO! NO! NO! WARNING, DO NOT DO THAT, EVER.

Speaker outputs are TOTALLY different than line/instrument level outputs, the 200s has NO slave out. NEVER run a tube amp without a load. It'll cook the output transformer in no time.

Always have a load on your amp.

Speaker outputs are in direct link to the output tubes, you'll be sending the full power of the amp into the low voltage instrument/line level inputs, and that will smoke the amp, coupled with having no load on the 200s, you'll cook it, too. NEVER, and I repeat NEVER, do that.

Solid state amps can run without a load attached, but I wouldn't suggest it. You can get two cabs, and use the preamp of the concert bass to slave the 200s, which is totally fine as long as the impedance matches with the 200s/cab.

If you want a tube preamp for the concert bass, give the English Muff'n a shot, it's cheap, and you won't tank both of your amps with it.

[george]

You will need to take the output of the 200S preamp section to do this. It will require drilling a hole in the chassis and adding the necessary jack and related components. Still don't know why you would want to do this? As was mentioned, taking the "speaker" output of the 200S into the preamp input of the Concert will damage both amps.

[grimniggzy]

Solid state amps can run without a load attached, but I wouldn't suggest it.

Lately I've been wanting to use my Beta Bass Master Line Out to my Coliseum for its power. The Beta Bass > 2X15 on 10 can't even put up with my brother using the Beta Lead on 5 > 4X12 & Slaving to a Concert Bass > 4X10. His rig is overly massive to pit just a 2X15 against, but I don't have any more cabs. The Coliseum can do it but IMO it sounds kinda flat compared to the Beta.
Not a good idea?

[ryco]

Hi George - the reason  to do this would be to get a warm tube preamp sound and combine it with the power and clarity of solid state.

To take it one step further would be chaining the 200s into a Coliseum 300 head to run bi-amp, using the 200s to run the highs (thru a 100w '72 Marshall 4x12 cab) and the lows into the Sunn 8028 cab.

BUT, if it's gonna wreck my lil' Sunn, I WON'T DO IT! hahaha! 

[MammothVolume]

Solid state amps can run without a load attached, but I wouldn't suggest it.

Lately I've been wanting to use my Beta Bass Master Line Out to my Coliseum for its power. The Beta Bass > 2X15 on 10 can't even put up with my brother using the Beta Lead on 5 > 4X12 & Slaving to a Concert Bass > 4X10. His rig is overly massive to pit just a 2X15 against, but I don't have any more cabs. The Coliseum can do it but IMO it sounds kinda flat compared to the Beta.
Not a good idea?

You could, Chris, but it's an unnecessary strain on the amp... To be honest, solid state amps can run without a load, but I feel like it would just run a beta too hot, simply because they run hot anyways. I know you want that preamp with the power of the coliseum. The cheapest option, while still being overly cautious, would be find a peavey 4x10 or 2x15 for nothing up there where you are. Peavey anything goes cheap... I still haven't gone to the post office, haha, I'll try and swing by tomorrow.

[MammothVolume]

Hi George - the reason  to do this would be to get a warm tube preamp sound and combine it with the power and clarity of solid state.

To take it one step further would be chaining the 200s into a Coliseum 300 head to run bi-amp, using the 200s to run the highs (thru a 100w '72 Marshall 4x12 cab) and the lows into the Sunn 8028 cab.

BUT, if it's gonna wreck my lil' Sunn, I WON'T DO IT! hahaha! 

Long as the 200s is running with a matched impedance on it's own cab, slaving it won't hurt it. The only thing about a 200s is there is no slave output. You can try plugging into input 1, and running a second cable from input 2 into the front end of the other amp. Works on most amps with a hi/low input, but I don't think the 200s has hi/low, I think they're just paralleled jacks... which may still send the signal. Try it, can't hurt, it's all line level.

[grimniggzy]

Solid state amps can run without a load attached, but I wouldn't suggest it.

Lately I've been wanting to use my Beta Bass Master Line Out to my Coliseum for its power. The Beta Bass > 2X15 on 10 can't even put up with my brother using the Beta Lead on 5 > 4X12 & Slaving to a Concert Bass > 4X10. His rig is overly massive to pit just a 2X15 against, but I don't have any more cabs. The Coliseum can do it but IMO it sounds kinda flat compared to the Beta.
Not a good idea?

You could, Chris, but it's an unnecessary strain on the amp... To be honest, solid state amps can run without a load, but I feel like it would just run a beta too hot, simply because they run hot anyways. I know you want that preamp with the power of the coliseum. The cheapest option, while still being overly cautious, would be find a peavey 4x10 or 2x15 for nothing up there where you are. Peavey anything goes cheap... I still haven't gone to the post office, haha, I'll try and swing by tomorrow.

Yeah, I'll look into another cab. I have noticed the Beta running hot before, but I think I was running it into a 2 ohm cab at a practice space by accident (oops). Really though, it wasn't even running THAT hot. For now I'll just tell my bro to turn down, get denied & stay buried in the mix, haha. No worries dude, whenever you can make it to the PO is fine by me.

[grimniggzy]

Solid state amps can run without a load attached, but I wouldn't suggest it.

Lately I've been wanting to use my Beta Bass Master Line Out to my Coliseum for its power. The Beta Bass > 2X15 on 10 can't even put up with my brother using the Beta Lead on 5 > 4X12 & Slaving to a Concert Bass > 4X10. His rig is overly massive to pit just a 2X15 against, but I don't have any more cabs. The Coliseum can do it but IMO it sounds kinda flat compared to the Beta.
Not a good idea?

You could, Chris, but it's an unnecessary strain on the amp... To be honest, solid state amps can run without a load, but I feel like it would just run a beta too hot, simply because they run hot anyways. I know you want that preamp with the power of the coliseum. The cheapest option, while still being overly cautious, would be find a peavey 4x10 or 2x15 for nothing up there where you are. Peavey anything goes cheap... I still haven't gone to the post office, haha, I'll try and swing by tomorrow.

Yeah, I'll look into another cab. I have noticed the Beta running hot before, but I think I was running it into a 2 ohm cab at a practice space by accident (oops). Really though, it wasn't even running THAT hot. For now I'll just tell my bro to turn down, get denied & stay buried in the mix, haha. No worries dude, whenever you can make it to the PO is fine by me.

So I got to try this since since my brother ended up moving into an apt. near school and only took a 1/2 stack with Beta Lead>Marshall 4X12 w/ V30's

Seemed to work a lot better the opposite way.

Coliseum Bass>215B
slaved to...
Beta Bass Both Channel>Ampeg 410HLF

Sounded pretty good for guitar. For Bass this setup totally rips.
Its cool having a wall all for myself now that my brother no longer uses the Ampeg to make a full stack.

[grimniggzy]

I'll have to take pics soon. I'm sure they'll turn out horrible.

[jaywalker]

The output signal from the 200s could be tapped (between output and cab) with an H&K Red Box or a Behringer GI 100 (NOT the DI 100). I wouldn't do it without having a speaker load on both  amps.
For that matter the tapped signal could be run through the PA (but then you wouldn't get to haul all that extra gear  ).
I know it's blasphemy but last Sunday I did a small gig by running guitar > pedalboard > GI 100 with 4x12 cab simulator engaged > PA and it sounded good enough for Govt. work as they say. Actually it was good, especially the 12 string elec.  

[ryco]

To take it one step further would be chaining the 200s into a Coliseum 300 head to run bi-amp, using the 200s to run the highs (thru a 100w '72 Marshall 4x12 cab) and the lows into the Sunn 8028 cab.

Long as the 200s is running with a matched impedance on it's own cab, slaving it won't hurt it. The only thing about a 200s is there is no slave output. You can try plugging into input 1, and running a second cable from input 2 into the front end of the other amp. Works on most amps with a hi/low input, but I don't think the 200s has hi/low, I think they're just paralleled jacks... which may still send the signal. Try it, can't hurt, it's all line level.

Thanks, MamVol! I finally got around to trying your idea of running the 200s to the Concert head via parallel input 1 7 2 and , indeed, it works well!
While not a "true" bi-amp solution. I'm either going to have to modify one of the heads or have an electronics wizard rig me up a crossover box so I can split the signal from bass to the head(s).