Model T Tubes

[Walt-Dogg]

Yay! More of my randomness about nonexistent tones!

Anyways, I've given up. I basically want all of my, or at least, most of distortion coming from my amp's tubes and all their tone/distortion/guitar's signal being near-perfectly reproduced in a power amp tube that's not too tight sounding (ex. 6550 tube, when you're not playing, you're NOT playing. I forgot what this is called, but I'm talking like dropouts in output when you fail to hit a note correctly). And this could more or less go for my MIG 100 H (but instead of KT-88s//6550s it would be 6L6s//KT-66s) as well. I want to get as much out of the amps in tone and power as possible before having to add gain to my signal with an OD or boost.

[rot gut]

gotta overdrive the tubes and run them hot.

[Walt-Dogg]

Yup, I'm looking for tubes with early distortion. Boost//OD comes very last after a satisfying amount of gain has been reached from the amp.

[rot gut]

sorry, by overdrive the tubes i mean use the natural distortion that the tubes give you.

[EdBass]

Yup, I'm looking for tubes with early distortion. Boost//OD comes very last after a satisfying amount of gain has been reached from the amp.

What is a satisfying amount of gain? I suspect that varies depending on personal taste, but to attain this satisfaction a person would have to find an amp that they like.
It's the circuit more than the tubes, if you aren't happy with the amount of gain or distortion your amp provides you need to keep looking for amp that works for you. Or... Use a pedal or some type of preamp or effect in front of it.
Just swapping tubes won't get that total character changing effect regardless of how many times you post about it; if you want a dramatic change find an amp that works for you.   

Try a Krank, those are pretty good at the "hair metal" gain like that clip you posted.

[stanner]

i thought of this amp when you are looking for 'no sound' when yer not playing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_KTBxBOpCc

[EdBass]

Yay! More of my randomness about nonexistent tones!

Anyways, I've given up. I basically want all of my, or at least, most of distortion coming from my amp's tubes and all their tone/distortion/guitar's signal being near-perfectly reproduced in a power amp tube that's not too tight sounding (ex. 6550 tube, when you're not playing, you're NOT playing. I forgot what this is called, but I'm talking like dropouts in output when you fail to hit a note correctly). And this could more or less go for my MIG 100 H (but instead of KT-88s//6550s it would be 6L6s//KT-66s) as well. I want to get as much out of the amps in tone and power as possible before having to add gain to my signal with an OD or boost.

i thought of this amp when you are looking for 'no sound' when yer not playing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_KTBxBOpCc

Ah, a noise gate. Now I think I get the “dropouts in output when you fail to hit a note correctly” thing. Thanks for un-confusing me Stan. That big gain Marshall with a built in gate sounds like an answer to Walt’s dilemma.

[MammothVolume]

I considered buying one of those KK Marshalls just because of the tube choice, but I got to touch one, it sounds like fizzy garbage, all the pot shafts are plastic...

It's just meh... If it's what you're lookin' for Walt, go for it, but it wasn't for me. I've got a legit MKII JCM800 and it's an amazing amp... It's a slave to my T, but still... amazing amp.

[Walt-Dogg]

Gah!

Just suggest me some 12AX7s, early distortion with good signal transfer. All I want is a slightly hotter pre-amp with some power tubes that sag instead of sounding sterile. And no it's not a noise gate. It's natural tube sterility I'm talking about, it's a fairly common thing, the terms just escape me. Like when you screw up a note and it the amp is silent instead of getting a half of the note, I do NOT want that silence.

I'm almost exactly where I wanna be with my gain, in both my Model T (bass) and MIG 100 H (guitar). I just want a little more out of the preamp tubes before I add an OD or boost to either, and my pre-amps are almost always dimed or near dimed anyways.

[EdBass]

Just suggest me some 12AX7s, early distortion with good signal transfer. All I want is a slightly hotter pre-amp with some power tubes that sag instead of sounding sterile.

12AX7’s are already the highest gain preamp tubes available. As I have mentioned before it’s the circuit; how many preamp gain stages that you have, how those gain stages of the preamp tubes stack up together and the voltages involved that determines the level and characteristics of preamp distortion rather than which 12AX7 you plug in.  Higher input via hot pickups or a pedal will accomplish what you seek, and while there are some differences in characteristics between 12AX7s as far as getting a “hotter pre-amp” than your amp has stock, you need boosted input signal or a different circuit.

What does “good signal transfer” mean?

 “Sag” isn’t a characteristic that one tube has and another doesn’t. If a 6550 “sags” in an amp so will a KT88, it’s caused by the power supply circuit dropping voltage because it can’t supply enough voltage during high demand situations and causing a little noise (distortion) when it happens. “Sag” is generally associated with tube rectified amplifier circuits. 

And no it's not a noise gate. It's natural tube sterility I'm talking about, it's a fairly common thing, the terms just escape me. Like when you screw up a note and it the amp is silent instead of getting a half of the note, I do NOT want that silence.

Natural tube sterility? What is that?  I thought I had a handle on what you meant with the gate explanation, and  I’m sure that I’m not the only one who would like to be helpful, but I have no idea what on earth you are talking about. Amps amplify, how would it know if you screwed up a note?

I'm almost exactly where I wanna be with my gain, in both my Model T (bass) and MIG 100 H (guitar). I just want a little more out of the preamp tubes before I add an OD or boost to either, and my pre-amps are almost always dimed or near dimed anyways.

I have a suggestion; get some beginner books about tube amplifiers. Seriously; once you get a handle on the basics of how amps work it will all make a lot more sense to you.

[MammothVolume]

http://www.diyguitarist.com/Misc/J_Darr.htm

Great book, just sayin'...

Walt wants to be able to flub notes and not have anyone hear him...  

Really though, if you want to get hotter, get hotter pickups. I don't see your aversion to using the extra gain from the OD. If you're really that obsessed about getting tube gain, get a preamp for your board...

Chandler Tube Driver
EHX English Muff'n
Mesa V-twin...

There's lots of options. You want an extra gain stage is what you want, you want saturation and compression. The 100H isn't compressed at all, and neither is the T, you can't hide ANYTHING from anyone on either of those amps. It's pretty much the exact setup I run, I run a JCM800 MKII, and my T, the clean tone isn't that hot, but it jangles. I run a BAT LSTR for my main gain, and a BAT Pharaoh for my boost...

[Walt-Dogg]

http://www.diyguitarist.com/Misc/J_Darr.htm

Great book, just sayin'...

Walt wants to be able to flub notes and not have anyone hear him...  

Really though, if you want to get hotter, get hotter pickups. I don't see your aversion to using the extra gain from the OD. If you're really that obsessed about getting tube gain, get a preamp for your board...

Chandler Tube Driver
EHX English Muff'n
Mesa V-twin...

There's lots of options. You want an extra gain stage is what you want, you want saturation and compression. The 100H isn't compressed at all, and neither is the T, you can't hide ANYTHING from anyone on either of those amps. It's pretty much the exact setup I run, I run a JCM800 MKII, and my T, the clean tone isn't that hot, but it jangles. I run a BAT LSTR for my main gain, and a BAT Pharaoh for my boost...

Well all I have to do is crank my RAT to do the necessary damage. The problem is that I really like the sound of my guitar through those amps, so anything I can do to make the amps fatter in the gain would be great as opposed to using something that is too clean or colors too much or my signal. And I'm going to be contacting Kent Armstrong soon about a new pickup for my Dan. I'm researching pickups right now with a friend so whence I find something right I'm gonna get it duplicated to my specifications for a Dan Armstongs guitar.

[mike_sims]

Walt, you ever try a Muff variant pedal? I like the Rat tone but I feel like it's a little too "compressed" for my likings. With the Big Muff style pedals I always get a real huge, great tone.

[Walt-Dogg]

I have, however I'm not looking for a fuzz distortion.