Author Topic: Sunn 200S  (Read 9702 times)

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Offline exxcell

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Sunn 200S
« on: May 30, 2012, 01:37:38 pm »
I recently picked up a Sunn 200S at a Garage sale for $50!!!!

Back thing is.. Its in pretty bad shape.

Tolex is fine, grill is fine... but it doesnt have any tubes, Missing caps(?).

Im wondering where I could get the scematic from?
And how it'd set me back If i were to take it to a shop?

Offline Isaac

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2012, 02:46:06 pm »
There used to be a schematic page on this site, but I can't find it.

I can send you a .pdf of the schematic. Lots of places you can find it online, too.  Here, for instance:
http://www.prowessamplifiers.com/schematics/sunn/200S.html
Isaac

Offline EdBass

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 08:13:31 am »
I recently picked up a Sunn 200S at a Garage sale for $50!!!!

Back thing is.. Its in pretty bad shape.

Tolex is fine, grill is fine... but it doesnt have any tubes, Missing caps(?).

Im wondering where I could get the scematic from?
And how it'd set me back If i were to take it to a shop?

Who knows? Tubes could be <$150, >$500, or anywhere in between depending on what you decide to use. Nice 6AN8's can be a little hard to find, and your particular amp may or may not require a rectifier tube.

Other than that vague guestimation, no one on a forum can really tell you "how it'd set me back If i were to take it to a shop"; you pretty much have to actually take it to a shop. Any quality shop can work on your amp, Sunns aren't real complex.
Bring the amp and the schematic Isaac posted and ask for an estimate for how much it would cost to make them match; not just "get it running", and go from there.

Good Luck!

Offline Isaac

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 05:16:46 pm »
I suggest that, in addition to making it match the schematic, you go one step beyond and have a 3-prong power cord installed. It doesn't affect the sound, and it's safer.
Isaac

Offline EdBass

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 10:40:37 am »
I suggest that, in addition to making it match the schematic, you go one step beyond and have a 3-prong power cord installed. It doesn't affect the sound, and it's safer.

Always a good idea, and don't forget to disable the polarity once you do it. I make mine ground lifts.

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 04:31:11 pm »
I suggest that, in addition to making it match the schematic, you go one step beyond and have a 3-prong power cord installed. It doesn't affect the sound, and it's safer.

Always a good idea, and don't forget to disable the polarity once you do it. I make mine ground lifts.

I do also....works well! The one thing I noticed though is that in rewiring the Sunns to take a 3 wire grounded power cord, if you rewire properly to have the fuse and switch on the hot side and run the neutral side direct to the transformer, the light stops working on the power switch? Maybe I need to change how that is wired also...but because of that, I've kept the fuse on one side and the switch on the other like it is originally....which isn't the technically correct way to do it. Have you guys noticed that at all or did you bother to try to make it correct and stick the fuse and switch on the hot side?

Greg

Offline Jack Hester

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 06:36:02 am »
Im wondering where I could get the scematic from?

Here's another source for schematics:

http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schematics1.php

And your schematic, specific:

http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/sunn/Sunn_200s2.pdf

Jack

Offline D.M.N.

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 10:13:48 am »
I suggest that, in addition to making it match the schematic, you go one step beyond and have a 3-prong power cord installed. It doesn't affect the sound, and it's safer.

Always a good idea, and don't forget to disable the polarity once you do it. I make mine ground lifts.

I do also....works well! The one thing I noticed though is that in rewiring the Sunns to take a 3 wire grounded power cord, if you rewire properly to have the fuse and switch on the hot side and run the neutral side direct to the transformer, the light stops working on the power switch? Maybe I need to change how that is wired also...but because of that, I've kept the fuse on one side and the switch on the other like it is originally....which isn't the technically correct way to do it. Have you guys noticed that at all or did you bother to try to make it correct and stick the fuse and switch on the hot side?

Greg

Yeah, the same thing happened when Conrad wired the 3 prong into my Sunn 2000s. Light doesn't work any more, which is sort of a bummer.
House of the Rising Sunn........
-----------------------------------
1969 2000s
1972 2000s
1970 1200s
1968 1000s
1969 200s
2010 2000s DIY 2x15
1971 2000s 2x15
1969 2000s 2x15
1972 2000s 2x15
1968 1000s 2x15
1970 1200s 6x12

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2012, 01:44:42 am »
I suggest that, in addition to making it match the schematic, you go one step beyond and have a 3-prong power cord installed. It doesn't affect the sound, and it's safer.

Always a good idea, and don't forget to disable the polarity once you do it. I make mine ground lifts.

I do also....works well! The one thing I noticed though is that in rewiring the Sunns to take a 3 wire grounded power cord, if you rewire properly to have the fuse and switch on the hot side and run the neutral side direct to the transformer, the light stops working on the power switch? Maybe I need to change how that is wired also...but because of that, I've kept the fuse on one side and the switch on the other like it is originally....which isn't the technically correct way to do it. Have you guys noticed that at all or did you bother to try to make it correct and stick the fuse and switch on the hot side?

Greg

Yeah, the same thing happened when Conrad wired the 3 prong into my Sunn 2000s. Light doesn't work any more, which is sort of a bummer.

You can rewire it to make the light work then. Just wire like the original was with the fuse and switch on opposite sides of the transformer and the green wire would be grounded as it is now...it should work. If you need an example of how they are wired stock, I can get you pics or a diagram....my '68 2000S is still untouched. Wiring it the way it was stock isn't technically correct with a 3 wire power plug setup, but it works and is still safe, though not as safe as sticking the fuse and switch on the hot side. One of these days I'll look at it closer and see why it doesn't light up unless wired the vintage way but I haven't had the time.

Greg

Offline Cartoonist1

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2013, 08:14:00 pm »
Hi Greg,

I know this is an old thread (apologies!) but would you still be happy to post the wiring option for the 3-pronged power cable, that still allows the power light to operate?

I'm going through my schematic and build (I'm building a 200S, or specifically a Sonic I40 as I cannot find one to buy over here in Oz). I want to make sure it is as well-grounded - and as safe - as I can make it.  It's also going to sound great.

Thanks
Mike

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 02:44:19 am »
Mike,

All I have is a hand-drawn schematic and layout that I did for my former 1970 Sonic 1 (200S) that has moved on to a guy in Canada. It is on large paper so it would be hard to scan....but I can tell you how it should be connected to get the lighting working on the power switch. That said, why use the original power switch? If they go bad, you can't find any easily. If you aren't going to use an original style lighted power switch, then it simplifies the wiring.

The proper way to wire a 3 wire power cord is that green should go to a chassis ground that is separate from any other ground within an inch or so of the power plug or cord. It should also be connected with a little slack so that the last thing connected in case of the power plug being pulled out is the chassis ground connection. Having it's own bolt that is attached with a nylock or better a keps locking nut is very important for safety reasons. You don't want to connect it to a transformer bolt as what happens if someone works on it and doesn't properly attach things again.

The "black" wire, otherwise known as the hot wire should go from the power plug to the fuse, then to the power switch, and then to one side of the primary winding on the power transformer. The "white" wire, otherwise known as the neutral wire should connect directly to the other side of the primary winding on the power transformer. This connection needs to be secure so you need to install a terminal strip and connect these two wires to one of the terminals rather than trying to connect them together directly.

The original Sunn power switch has a fourth connection that is for the light. The light connects across the primary, but is switched with the power switch. The white wire goes to the power switch and to one side of the light. The black wire goes to the fuse and the other side of the light. The most likely reason the light doesn't work when the power connection is modified is because it loses one of it's connections to either the white or the black wire. I would have to mess around with my 2000S to be sure, but I don't have time right now. I do plan to overhaul the amp at some point and go to a 3 wire power cord and will need to modify this area of the amp, but its a ways off for me right now. You could wire yours up the way I described immediately above and the amp would work and be safe. It just isn't as safe as the first way I mentioned. An even safer way is to wire it like Marshalls and put a fuse and switch in line with each connection. This uses a DPST switch instead of a SPST switch.

If I was building a Sunn clone, I wouldn't be so concerned about the cosmetics that I was using the same identical switches....they are very hard to find and you can only get them used and they weren't all that great of a switch anyway. I tend to use a lot of Carling switches like Fenders use. These aren't lighted though, but you can always use a seperate pilot lite like Fenders or the neon ones like Marshalls. You could also use a lighted Marshall power switch too. These aren't that hard to wire up and can be done safely, and are readily available. I would also use an IEC power connector instead of a hard-wired AC cord. You can even get these with the fuse incorporated into it and they are safer and easier to wire up and use as any standard cord will fit. There are a number of other changes that could be made but these are the basics that I would start with.

Does that help?

Greg

Offline loudthud

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2013, 11:04:57 am »
The original style power switch is available here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunn-Amp-Power-Switch-Tube-Type-60s-style-/140916541497?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20cf47c839

I think Aaron is a member here.

The original is (usually) pop riveted in, you'll have to remove the front panel and drill the pop rivets. You can attach the new switch with short 6-32 counter sunk head screws. Note that you have to bend one of the terminals so that it doesn't stick out of the bottom of the amp where it can short out to anything metal you might set the naked chassis on.

Note that Gregs explanation above is for USA wiring. Safety rules in Oz may differ. You should learn and follow those. One problem is that the pilot light in the switch is rated for 120V operation and would need a series resistor to work on 240V or if you have a universal type transformer the pilot light can go to the center tap of the primary.

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2013, 06:38:12 pm »
I wasn't aware those switches were available anymore so thanks for pointing that out Loudthud. Also, thanks for clarifying that my instructions were for US style wiring....I had meant to add that in there but forgot. I've never seen a Sunn amp set up for export wiring, but I would think it wouldn't be much different than Euro amps like Marshalls. Oz will have their own standards for AC wiring and of course Mike should follow those.

Greg

Offline loudthud

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Re: Sunn 200S
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2013, 08:14:43 pm »
None of the 40W or 60W amps you find in the USA had dual primary transformers. I don't know if any were ever made for export to 220/240 volt countries. The 120W amps did however have dual primaries. You can get a dual primary transformer for the 60W amps from Triode. I don't know if they have one for the 40W amps.

Some countries require that both sides of the incomming line be switched. I don't think Carling makes a switch that will fit AND have a pilot light.