SUNN Model T - Question

[fertuiee]

Hello there,

I fear typing this that this maybe WELL trodden ground but hey, here goes. Im the proud owner of a Sunn 0)) model T - 2nd Generation, made in 1975. It is the most sickening loud and amazing amplifier i have ever heard, hands down. I have played it alongside various amplifiers ( Hi end vintage, new blah blah ) and it simply eats them alive, no comparison...to my ear anyway.

What id like to know is, what is the main TONAL or VOLUME difference between my 2nd generation one and the earlier black nob version, cos to me all i can find online is a load of gear - geeks talking about caps, filters and god knows what else but not much in the way of SOUND difference!! I know enough to know that power tubes make a massive difference, im not really asking that.

Ill be totally honest here, if the first generation is much louder or better, im away to buy one cos this 2nd Generation one IS the best amp ive ever heard, wihtout question, it eats Orange OR's, Ampeg V4's, Matamp Gt's.

GO!!!

[EdBass]

Have you tried a search on this forum? You are right, it IS a popular topic here.

[fertuiee]

Hey,

Yeh i did but could only find one post that some guy was worrying about how his sounded towards another and technical solutions, i have NO problem with the way mine sounds, any "search" suggstions?

[stanner]

I guess i will keep doing this until...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbnyXFb0gOM&list=UU-XZpLy7j7xrjION7iJgyTw&index=16&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI25pLvPW1U&feature=relmfu

[fertuiee]

Thanks guys,

Really dont mean to be a pain here, the help is very much appreciated, but the 1st gen video is definately being played with RAT pedal, ill eat my sofa if not, ive heard that pedal through a model T many times and the 2nd gen one without any pedal at all........does this mean........its the Red knob for an early 1 - 0 lead............oh i think so!!!!! Im guessing it all depends on what tones you are going for, me? i just want to loosen fillings.

[Isaac]

About halfway down the first page is a thread titled, "Model T Red vs. Silver".

Maybe you should try looking at that.

[fertuiee]

Thanks Isaac,

The help is very much appreciated, the thing i really draw from all the info ive gathered is that, the 2nd gen cant distract from a mid boost and is a little different because of a mid switch. so im gonna level it for all the folks wanting to buy a model T. Only an opinion mind, but its what i would want to know, so heres for all the "Goooglers" wondering what the hell people are talking about.

The 2nd Generation of Sunn O)) model T amplifers - the ones with the RED knobs?? between 1974/75 i believe? the ones that sound like satan incarnate? do not have any fear of buying them, IF you are looking for HEAVY tone, they are unbeleivable amps SOOOO CRUSHINGLY HEAVY!! ( in good condition, remember theyre point to point wired, and you know what these idiots are like for "modding" blah blah" ). Most of the guys buying model T's seem like they listen to Ted Nugent, and he played an Enforcer, anyway, theyre awsome too!!

The moral of this story is, if youre looking for "beautiful lead tones" the Model T ...could be for you, but more than likey you should BUY A MODERN AMP!! THEY ALL DO THAT!!!!!!!!! Model T's are unique sounding amps! Amplifier makers are better than theyve ever been, DO NOT believe all of this Nostalgia bullshit they come out with!!  If your are buying Sunn o))) rest assured that they do HEAVY better than anyone, i have 3 SUNN amps.

Sorry for the rant Isaac, the forum is great

 

[EdBass]

I'm trying to get a grasp of whatever point you are trying to make, so help me out here.

So, what does "heavy" as in "SOOOO CRUSHINGLY HEAVY!!" actually mean?
Also, what would you call a "modern amp"; what is an example?

Finally, if a person actually possesses the ability to play more talented stuff than simple barre chords at dirge tempo, are descriptive terms like "heavy" and/or "sound like satan incarnate" good or bad things?
Or, are you suggesting that persons that really know how to play should buy "modern amps"?

Just curious... ; )

[fertuiee]

I'm trying to get a grasp of whatever point you are trying to make, so help me out here.

Hey Ed, hope Al's well, the point I'm trying make is that Ive tried a lot of musical equipment from different decades and heard a whole host of opinions on musical equipment over the years and to be totally honest, for the large part sounds like a bunch of nostalgia based rubbish. Especially when it comes to Sunn O)) amps. My own experience of the 2ND generation is nothing more than positive.

So, what does "heavy" as in "SOOOO CRUSHINGLY HEAVY!!" actually mean?
Also, what would you call a "modern amp"; what is an example?

My particular amp is what i would call "SOOO CRUSHLNGLY HEAVY" compared to anything else ive encountered, it has that "volume / bass in the guts" at such low volumes that amp heads in general dont have, as it gets louder ( past 3 or 4  Master  volume ) the sound is different than other amps, more sustain, more bass, and a different level / type of distortion, far more DRONE, what can i say. A modern amp to me would be an Orange Rockerverb 100 Watt amp ( i am an owner ) different sound, beautiful all the same, has its own sound. Not a model T.

Finally, if a person actually possesses the ability to play more talented stuff than simple barre chords at dirge tempo, are descriptive terms like "heavy" and/or "sound like satan incarnate" good or bad things?

All depends on the player, as i said before. For me, luckily this type of amp suits exactly what i want, im what i would describe as a "moderately"  competent player, im no Steve Vai, in which case i would not be playing a Model T.........2nd gen


Just curious... ; )

So am i

[EdBass]

Thanks! Now I sorta know where you are coming from with your opinions of gear.
I think the Rockerverb is one of the newer Orange mass produced PCB designs (as opposed to the original 60's hand wired Orange designs), and is one of the highest gain Orange amps available.

Sunns are traditionally lower gain, big clean power, big bass response designs with massive OT's and a single 12AX7 preamp. I haven't spent much time actually plank through a Model T, but I see by the schematic that the model T has another 12AX7 in the preamp as well as a 12AX7 instead of a 6AN8 or 7199 for a driver tube, so I imagine that it would have at least the potential for more gain than an original 4X6550 Sunn does.
Apparently a lot of drone and doom bands find the Model T the amp of choice for their genre as they seem to be quite popular with those "bands".

As I've stated before, I don't understand the genre and don't classify it as "music" per se, but recognize it as an art form. I think on a positive note that the genre has inspired a lot of kids to try to play instruments, saving them all of those tedious hours of actually learning to play.
An art form they can emulate pretty well a week or so after plugging in their first guitar.

In this age of sampling and PC based electronic, IMO anything that gets real instruments into peoples hand is a good thing!

[fertuiee]

Agreed totally. Bands like Sunn 0)), Khanate etc have a particular appeal i guess, i personally find them boring as hell, and like you say.......is it actually music? or more .....oh well i wont go there, each to their own anyhow.

If im honest i bought this particular amp because i'd obviously heard the youtube stuff but more because i couldnt find a modern amp that had the same bottom end, and also the unique-ness of the tone. To contradict myself slightly, these amps are very versatile but i still wreckon if its good lead tone i wanted, id go for an Orange / Marshall or maybe Brugera there is so much beautiful custom stuff now. If you want heavy - SUNN o)) Only my opinion.

So the real point i was trying to make was that all i coud find online about this particular amp was negativity, i literally have no idea why, but everyones entitled to an opinion. I obviously dont claim to be any kind of authority on.... anything really haha! but in this case - the 2nd generation amps as theyre called, there is nothing to fear with them, if you get a chance buy one, do not hesistate, thats what i would like to hear if i was still after one. As aposed to "dont get a redknob one theyre useless compared to the 1st one" - "Why" - "oh they just are, because the first ones always the best, i heard it 25 years ago"

[EdBass]

Well, there was obviously a reason that Hartzell decided to "upgrade" the Model T instead of leaving it the way that they originally designed it in '73.
Somebody or some commitee made the decision to invest the resources into redesigning/reconfiguring the Model T, so I suppose it's safe to say you aren't the only one who thinks the Gen II is a superior amp.

Of course as with all things tone related, it's up to the listener to choose what is "best".

[fertuiee]

Well, ive never actually heard the original, so couldnt say i preffered them. Just thought all the reviews id read were unfair to disregard them as useless rubbish mostly. I love this amp and will never sell it. All i know is, even the cheapest guitar amp will have its qualities, so to disregard something that was at the time High end, just barks of ..........well i dont know what.

[JonO)))]

As I've stated before, I don't understand the genre and don't classify it as "music" per se, but recognize it as an art form.

You could say drone strikes "a note" with some people! (Myself included btw.)

I think on a positive note that the genre has inspired a lot of kids to try to play instruments, saving them all of those tedious hours of actually learning to play.
An art form they can emulate pretty well a week or so after plugging in their first guitar.

In this age of sampling and PC based electronic, IMO anything that gets real instruments into peoples hand is a good thing!

I agree with your last point, that anything that encourages people to learn an instrument must be a good thing, but your first point is dreadfully condescending. Even if it is correct (which I doubt, at least in most instances), what is to be gained by expressing such a negative opinion?