Grill Cloth From Wendell

[Sunny Boy]

I'm sure I'm missing something in all this.  What would be the EPA's concern?  The manufacturing of the plastic threads that the cloth is woven with?  Something else? 

Seems to me that if the current Fender cloth can be produced, then the Sunn should be able to as well.  Vox still manages to produce their distinctive diamond pattern cloth, albeit with a different material.  And the weird thing about it is that they went from cotton (the old stuff) to a synthetic fiber.  When I questioned Mitch Colby about that, he said they were legally prohibited from making the old cloth, something to do with a "fire hazard". (Anyone ever had your amps grill cloth catch fire? Not me.)

I would suggest, again, that if Fender can make their black and silver cloth, then it should be reasonable to assume that the same materials could be used with an alternate weave pattern to create an acceptable replacement cloth.

[loudthud]

The component threads in the pre mid 69 Sunn cloth don't look any different from the threads in contempoary Fender like cloth. There are black and white or off white threads and a metalic silver thread with fine white threads wound in a spiral around it. The metal is about .001 inch thick and .015 inch wide with a shiny finish. The one overall difference is that the Sunn cloth is about twice as many threads per inch. Why would that be a problem for the EPA. Most EPA regs are concerned with the concentration of chemicals in discharged air or water and other waste products of manufacturing.

[EdBass]

Well I certainly don't have a handle on all of the restraints that the EPA use to throttle the viability of US manufacturing, and as I said my recollection of this particular situation is less than crystal clear, but I am relatively certain that rationalizing how said regulations shouldn't keep Wendell from manufacturing the obsolete grill cloth we would all like to buy on an online forum won't have any influence on whether they actually resume manufacture of it or not.
If there wasn't some sort of insurmountable roadblock in the way, I'd like to believe that Wendell would try to capitalize on an opportunity to generate some "found" revenue by at least setting a minimum purchase threshold for an initial run that would cover their setup and earn them an acceptable margin.

Hopefully bigobassman's efforts and face to face intervention will make some headway towards the goal that we are hoping to accomplish; Godspeed brother! 

[bigobassman]

Made my visit to Wendell Friday.  Very nice folks that I met.  Bill Swank treated me well and showed me some of the manufacturing area.  Pointed out some Fender cloth and others.  We then looked at the ST7005, the "new" look cloth for 69ish up Sunn.  Then the FN-5660 for the "aged" look cloth.  I took the frame and original cloth from my recently acquired 69/70ish 200S.  Comparing the 2, the aged was real close looking, so I decided to get the minimum 2 yards @ 72 inches.  While a guy was getting that ready, Bill happened to notice some cloth sitting against a wall and told me, there's some of the new look that was defective and he could give me a deal on it.  It's not 72 inches but cut 36 inches and would work on the frame that I had.  The defect was one end was not exactly as it should have been, but once pulled to the back of the frame, you'd never see it.  I agreed.  When he told me that he could let me have it for 5$ a yard.  I told him I'd take 4 yards.  When the guy came to cut it, Bill told him to cut 5 yards.  So I got 5 for the price of 4.  Very very happy with the experience.  I asked about the old style and showed him the picture of it.  He said that he could do that, but it came from Indonesia and he could not buy from them.  He could make it, but it's an expensive deal to do.  He'd have to have half of the cost up front.  About this time things at the plant started getting real busy.  they had a truck come in to unload and they were closing early for the Christmas holiday, so our conservation about the old cloth came to a quick end.  I think that he mentioned $7,000 up front fee, but don't quote me since things started moving along and he had to go.  I know that this is not much onfo for the old stuff, but's all that I got this time.  He and the lady in the office all invited me back anytime.  Maybe if I had an example of the cloth and caught him at a better time, I could get more specific information on the elusive.  I did manage to mention the Traynor cloth was similar.  He said that they like to be secretive with their stuff,but it's all the same.  Not sure what that meant.  So, there's my report.  Once I complete the 200S rehab, I'll get down to doing the grill cloth and report on which one I use and how it does.

[george]

I'm guessing that the original material or maybe the material Wendell would need to make the older style cloth, contains PBB or PBDE (flame retardants) that are now banned. Just a guess.....

[mattoreg]

Any more progress or word from anyone tracking down the older grill cloth?

[bigobassman]

Nothing that I've heard beyond previous comments and guesses. 

[alcan60283]

I'm in contact now with Wendell fabrics. Here is what They have to say:

Jonathan:
Good morning.  I tried to call no answer.  We do offer both fabrics, DF 7005 and DF 8048.  You can go to our website www.wendellfabrics.com, and go to upper right hand corner and click MELLOTONE fabric samples and look at the fabrics.  Both of these fabrics pricing is $33.90 for 2 to 29 yards.  Width of fabric is 72 inches.  If you order less than 5 yards there is a $15.00 handling fee.  Of course customer pays freight from 29702, Blacksburg, SC by UPS.
Any other assistance I can give please feel free and contact me by email or you can call 864-839-6341 ext#23.
Thanks

Then I asked him which one he thought was more accurate, and this was his response:

The DF 8048 was made to reflect the DF 7005 when aged.  The old fabrics were run with saran which tends to yellow with age or UV light.

So anyways, when I receive the samples i will take some good clear pictures and post another reply for all to see. I think these are going to be the ticket for our Sunn Grill Cloth, at least the later silver cloth.

I've attached the fabric samples and current part numbers from Wendell, as well as my 2000S cab grill samples for comparison.

[EdBass]

Thanks for the effort alcan, but we have pretty much hashed out the Wendell/Sunn grill cloth thing. The old (pre '69) cloth is what we need; many of us have bought and installed "like new" and "aged", both of which are the later Sunn fabric design.
 
Here's what a 2000S looks like in 7005;

[alcan60283]

Any pics of the Aged stuff?

The 7005 looks FANTASTIC though!

[EdBass]

I don't, I opted for the new look. I've done a 2000S head, those two cabs and a 200S head and cab in 7005. The tolex on all of them scrubbed up mostly "new" looking, no ciggy burns, tears or obvious wear, so they came out sorta NOS looking.

[Stratmanx]

Looks like a reasonable substitute for my '68 Sentura I, but its sure hard to justify the price minimum size when all I need is enough to cover the grill panel of the front of the amp.

Dumb-O me decided to paint it black back in the day..

So you suppose he might sell smaller cut off pieces in that size ?