Sunn Sonic II --> sonic 1 post

[Mr.Golden]

This is just a follow up to the Sonic I post. I have myself a Sonic II. Is there a huge difference between the two of them?[/quote]

[Isaac]

Nope. Everything is the same except for the power amp, and maybe the transformers. If I'm correct, the Sonic II used KT88 or 6550 power tubes, for an output of 60 watts, while the Sonic I used EL34s, for 40 watts. Everything else, I think, was the same.

[Mr.Golden]

Is there any way of modifying the Sonic II to get some more power and volume out of it? Is it more of headache than it's worth?

[Isaac]

In my opinion, the best way to get more sound out of any amp is by changing or adding to the speakers.

Think about it. 6550 tubes, as used by Sunn, put out about 30 watts each. You might change to KT88s, but what will that gain you? Let's say you get up to 80 watts. that's an increase of only 1.25 dB. Odds are you wouldn't even hear it. Add a second, identical cabinet, and you gain at least 3 dB. Change out the drivers from drivers with, say 96 dB sensitivity to ones with 102 dB sensitivity, and you gain 6 dB. Those changes you can hear. Another thing is to mike the cabinet, and put it through the PA. Or - and I admit, this is a dangerous concept - the rest of the band might turn down. Most bands play so loud that the audience can't converse. If you're playing at a dance or a club, they'll want to. If you're playing concerts, you'll want to mike the cab into the PA anyway. Use your amp to get the tone you want. There are other ways to get volume.

[JoeArthur]

The volume... meaning the loudness of 60 watts, depends on what speaker/enclosure combination you use with it - to a much higher degree than anything you could do to the amp.

[Soundmasterg]

If the speakers in your cabinet are the original JBL D130's or D140s, then they are efficient speakers, somewhere around 100db each I believe. They also can sound very good if in proper working order. The amp can run two speaker cabinets at the same time, and if you do this, your volume will double. With a single 2x15 cabinet, with JBL D series speakers in it, that amp should be able to keep up just fine for clean tones with a couple guitar players using 30 watt amps played loud. Say a couple Vibrolux's or Deluxe Reverbs or something. It might be able to keep up with something bigger like a Super Reverb or a 50w Marshall if you don't mind a little distortion in your sound. If your guitar players are playing 100 w amps and playing loud, then you will need more power, and aside from going with more efficient speakers, or having more speakers, there is no way to do this unless you build a new amp or get a different one, or modify this one you have with a new power transformer and output transformer....which is pretty much the same as building a new amp.

[Rich Briere]

"The amp can run two speaker cabinets at the same time, and if you do this, your volume will double"

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. :^>)  Adding an additional cabinet will, indeed, add more depth by changing the impedance load and making the amplifier work a little harder, but it won't double your volume.  :^>)

Bass-ically Yours,
Rich Briere
http://www.richbriere.com

[Soundmasterg]

Sorry Rich, I was thinking of the SVT for some reason when I said that. I remember reading that about the SVT that it's volume doubles when run into another cabinet. Whether it is true or not I haven't had the occasion to test it, but at least we know that the volume does go up with another speaker cabinet!

[Rich Briere]

Good Morning All,

The "doubling volume" thing falls into the same "myth category" that perpetuates itself on so many of the forums.  Again, re-ststing the fact that I'm a fan, a player, a lover of SUNN ---  but NOT a tech, as I understand it, it takes TEN times the power to double the volume, all other things being equal. While adding a second cabinet will, perhaps, double the "power" of an amp, volume is a different story altogether.

I must also comment on how wonderful it is to see so many new faces in this forum. I haven't been around for awhile and  the number of new Sunn fans is wonderful.  

Bass-ically Yours,
Rich Briere

http://www.richbriere.com

[Isaac]

Rich, and everyone, it all depends on your definitions. Adding a second, identical cabinet to a tube amp will increase your output by 3 dB, the same as if you doubled your amplifier power. Looked at that way, one might say the volume has doubled.

To get a perceived doubling of volume, though, it does take ten times the power. That's 10 dB. Looked at that way, it takes ten times as much amplifier power for something to sound twice as loud. I won't go in to things that make this more complex, but in practice, ten times as much power into the same speakers won't sound ten times as loud in every case, even assuming the speakers can handle it.

I look at it in the latter way. Perception is everything in making music, so perceived volume is what counts.

[Soundmasterg]

Thanks for the clarification Isaac....thats what I was trying to say earlier but couldn't get it out right!

[Isaac]

Glad to be of help.