Author Topic: Concert Bass and Cabinet X  (Read 16254 times)

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Offline Johnny Guitar

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 10:34:27 pm »
Hello Jeff,
Yeah I did notice the 412 SR's and Concert Horns, they look great!  I don't know anything about the 118 cabs. I collect pictures of the different SUNN amps & cabs when I see them on the site or Ebay.  I didn't have much on the 118 cabs for some reason. Hope you find what you need.
Johnny G.

Offline Jeff Troy

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2011, 06:41:23 am »
Hi, Johnny, Ed and Isaac,

The 412 cabs and horns came out great, and perfectly match the set I already had. That makes four of each, and they should sound really nice with any of my Sunn mixers and slaves. I recently picked up a Coliseum Audio Controller, just like the one I had in the mid-70s.

Thanks to all three of you for those excellent images and helpful information, but man, I'm in a real dilemma now. The BH description indicates SR (sound reinforcement) usage, and the 26-inch width and curved baffle seem to back that up -- kinda like the four 115SR cabinets that came with my Coliseum PA back in the 1970s. The other two 18-inch cabinets are 30 inches wide, so the 24-inch Concert head won't ever look right to me on top of them. I think the 18-inch speaker thing is a gonner, and probably not the sound I'd be looking for with my Armstrong anyway. I like that angry Pappalardi/Bruce rasp with a big sustain, and I think the 18 might be too boomy.

That leaves me with a 115 for portability or a 215 for bigger sound. Right now, I'm leaning toward the 115, but I'd like to have a drawing or picture of the 115 that Sunn used for bass.

Anyone have a drawing or image?

The 215 cabinet I have is a Sorado, and I'm sure that the 200S cabinet is superior. The Sunn Transducers I have in the Sorado enclosure are old and farty, and I'd sooner replace them with Eminence than have a pair of mediocre speakers reconed. I also think that the rear-loaded 115 I have was a PA enclosure that I modified by making a new baffle without the cutout for the horn. I'm guessing that the bass enclosure is not quite as tall by a few inches, and would almost certainly have a different baffle or port arrangement.

In the meantime, I'll try the Concert head with the 115 and 215 cabinets that I have, but I think I still have absolutely no idea what to think!

Another thought is a 412 cabinet. I've played the Armstrong through my 1974 Twin Reverb in small venues. That amp has JBL 12s, and the bass sounds excellent through it. Maybe a Sunn 412 would be a good thing, but I have to remember that the Twin is a tube amp, and probably a lot warmer than the Concert. Six- and 10-inch speakers just don't sound appealing for bass, although I guess I could try the Armstrong through the Concert and one of the 410S cabinets I fabricated for my Sentura II head.

412, 115, 215 -- Like I said, I'm in a dilemma. Any input from you guys with firsthand experience?

I hate to be pain in the arse, buy thanks again in advance,
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 06:55:26 am by Jeff Troy »
759 New Holland Ave.
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www.jefftroy.com (under construction)

Offline EdBass

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2011, 09:55:00 am »
I wouldn’t let the fact that that the BH and MH were designated SR put me off, Jeff. The issue is the natural roll off of high frequencies caused by the horn configuration. I’m not familiar enough with them to specify at what frequency that attenuation will begin, but at some point the high end will stop making that corner and become reflective to some degree, and higher than that they just won’t get out of that “maze” at all.
Hence my earlier “thumper” comment.
Not that it’s necessarily a bad thing, many players have successfully used folded horns for bass for many years, it’s whether or not that is what you are looking for.

Cabs wider than heads never bothered me personally; the “T” looks of the other way around drives me crazy though. Those vented 118’s would be a different animal than the BH/MH cab. When you can see the cone you are getting the full range that the driver offers, and the high end “snap” is pretty much determined by which driver you use. A lot of 18’s will respond very similarly to 15’s (just move more air), and while “boomy” can happen if there is an issue with the enclosure/driver matchup, it isn’t limited to 18’s. Any speaker can get boomy, and IMO you aren’t any more likely to have an issue with an 18 over a 15. In fact, IMO speaker size generally takes a back seat to things like xmax vs. total cone area, total cone mass and rigidity, etc but there is a reason for the “stereotypes” associated with different driver sizes; smaller speakers are generally more high frequency sensitive and big speaker almost always pump more air.
Keep in mind the term “enclosure”. Everything that contains the driver is an enclosure, such as the room it’s in, and a lot of “boomy” issues are actually room induced. Big flat parallel walls can induce standing waves which will create pockets of eye ball rattling boominess alternating with pockets of almost zero bottom end response. You can actually move from one extreme to the other and feel the phenomenon. Pretty trippy!

The 115 (and their “big brother” 215) cabs that I’m familiar with are the Sonic I40 and the 115S,M,V. I have a Sonic I40 cab;



I don’t have any pics of the cab opened. They look the same, but like the difference between a 200S and 215S,M,V cabs the Sonic I40 is rear loaded, fixed grill, and is basically half of a 200S cab. I know CLD has a 115V cab, maybe he can post a “naked” pick of it for comparison, but it essentially half of a 215S,M,V cab.
I think the 115S,M,V cabs are a lot more practical and flexible, they front load, will accept about any 15” driver you want to put in and sound real good doing it, while the Sonic I40 shares the port ducting restrictions of the 200S cab which limits its overall utility.

Can’t share much about the 412 concept, the only Sunn 412 I have “hands on” with is the Sceptre, and I’ve had zero luck with that one as a bass cab.

Offline Jeff Troy

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2011, 01:34:14 pm »
Hi, Ed,

Thanks again. Great response as usual. I'll be mulling all that over for awhile I'm sure.

BTW, if you send an address in a pm or to jefftroy@aol.com, , I'll send you some of those black, #4 flat-head Phillips screws you need for the Sunn badge on your 115. The bright screws are scary.

Warmest regards,
759 New Holland Ave.
Lancaster PA 17602
C: 717-917-3670
www.bandmix.com/jefftroy
www.jefftroy.com (under construction)

Offline CLD

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2011, 01:59:10 pm »
Here is a "naked" look at the 115V. It's a great cabinet although more often I use my 115RH (with an E-140) for lower-volume situations where I still want a nice full sound.

Sunn since June 1971!
1971 Sorado, 2000S, Coliseum Bass, Coliseum Lead
1970 200S; 1974 Coliseum 880

Offline EdBass

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2011, 03:31:21 pm »
BTW, if you send an address in a pm or to jefftroy@aol.com, , I'll send you some of those black, #4 flat-head Phillips screws you need for the Sunn badge on your 115. The bright screws are scary.

Those are actually the bottom screw holes that are reflecting in the picture, they are empty. The top two have charcoal gray anodized pan heads. I'll get around to fixing it some day...  :wink:
Thanks for the offer, but the shipping would probably be almost as much as a set of 4 screws!  :-D

Offline Jeff Troy

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2011, 05:44:49 pm »
Hi, CLD,

Thanks, ace. That looks like a probable prospect.

Ed, I wouldn't worry about the postage. I'll wrap a dozen in a paper towel and stick 'em in an envelope. Even a broke as* like me can deal with 44 cents. Let me know if you want them.

This site is a true blessing. Thanks to everyone.

Warmest...
759 New Holland Ave.
Lancaster PA 17602
C: 717-917-3670
www.bandmix.com/jefftroy
www.jefftroy.com (under construction)

Offline Johnny Guitar

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2011, 08:36:07 pm »
Hello Jeff,
Here are a couple of pics of different cabs.
Johnny G.

Offline shibbz

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2011, 09:06:18 pm »
On the subject of 15 cabs, does anyone have any pictures of the Sunn 2x15 with the angled baffle? It was the size of a 1x15, with the angled baffle like those 6x12 cabs had. I saw one at an estate sale a few months ago, but I couldn't afford to grab it on top of the 100s I bought.  :-D

Offline EdBass

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2011, 10:46:26 am »
On the subject of 15 cabs, does anyone have any pictures of the Sunn 2x15 with the angled baffle? It was the size of a 1x15, with the angled baffle like those 6x12 cabs had. I saw one at an estate sale a few months ago, but I couldn't afford to grab it on top of the 100s I bought.  :-D

The only angled baffle 215 I've seen is like a 215B; side ported and the whole baffle angled towards the ported side. I've never heard of a "V" baffled 215 the size of a 115 cab, but it sounds interesting!

Offline shibbz

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2011, 11:56:50 am »
On the subject of 15 cabs, does anyone have any pictures of the Sunn 2x15 with the angled baffle? It was the size of a 1x15, with the angled baffle like those 6x12 cabs had. I saw one at an estate sale a few months ago, but I couldn't afford to grab it on top of the 100s I bought.  :-D

The only angled baffle 215 I've seen is like a 215B; side ported and the whole baffle angled towards the ported side. I've never heard of a "V" baffled 215 the size of a 115 cab, but it sounds interesting!
It was really neat looking. At first glance I assumed it was a 1x15. I asked if I could take off the grill to lurk the speaker and was surprised (and thrilled) to see 2, with the v baffle. The more I think about it, the more I want it... I've gotta dig up some emails...

Offline EdBass

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2011, 12:11:56 pm »
It was really neat looking. At first glance I assumed it was a 1x15. I asked if I could take off the grill to lurk the speaker and was surprised (and thrilled) to see 2, with the v baffle. The more I think about it, the more I want it... I've gotta dig up some emails...

Do you see any description in the catalog thread that seems as if it could be the cab in question?

Offline dheizer

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2011, 01:34:21 pm »
Only thing I can think of with a 15 and "V" baffle is the 115SR.  Was there a 2x15 version of that?

Offline shibbz

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Re: Concert Bass and Cabinet X
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2011, 04:52:38 pm »
No info in the catalog thread. I lurked the 115sr. It was about that size, just with the "v" baffle and 2 x15s. I emailed the guy and he may still have it! He's calling me tomorrow after he checks. Fingers crossed!
This is were the estate sale was. Prepare to drool. I did.
http://a.blip.tv/guitar-shop-tv/brent-ware-vintage-amp-collection-4992553